Custer Forrest or Custer

[Northern Light]

No, but a week ago or less I saw a joint interview with Stiles and 3 other writers, all of whom were candidates for somebody's best military history of the year award. (It was won by a book on the French and Indian War.) By his own admission, Stiles falls into the category of Custer-basher seeing the Boy General as a product of his times, which in itself sounded interesting. According to him, there's virtually nothing in it on the Little Big Horn, but it sounded to me like he was all-too-ready to accept the negative narratives of haters like Benteen, etc.

Thanks, James N. I most likely will not read this, as there are many books that are far more interesting that I want to read. I guess if it was up for a prize, it cannot be TOO bad.

 

[Two Eyed Jack]

Forrest is known for a massacre.

Custer is known for being massacred.

Ol' Bedford, by a furlong!

(Edit: corrected spelling error- know/known)

 

[civilken]

How do you like that I don't remember who I picked but in less I was in a pickle it would have to be forest I don't believe there's any comparison my family will all Yankees. But you have to give the devil his due. As Sherman said 10,000 men to get one man I am sure they never said that about custom.

 

[Nathanb1]

This poll is about as lopsided as the party on the Little Bighorn.

 

[civilken]

This poll is about as lopsided as the party on the Little Bighorn.

Very nice I do like your sense of humor. I guess we can say custard and more than just a bad hair day.

 

[civilken]

I will say something about custard he was the civil wars Rodney Dangerfield.

 

[cash]

I will say something about custard he was the civil wars Rodney Dangerfield.

Better frozen than in pies, in my opinion.

 

[diane]

Better frozen than in pies, in my opinion.

That reminds me of a weird conversation here some long time ago - my husband's great-aunt's last name was Custard. She maintained she was related to Custer and that the family had changed the spelling of the name because of the Little Bighorn. (Actually, Custer's name was spelled a few different ways in the newspapers, one of which really was Custard!) At any rate, it's always been a joke in the family - hubby is also related to Crazy Horse on his Sioux side...

 

[kholland]

Just my personal feeling as I have not read too much on Forrest. But I think part of Custer' s problem was that he was brave but jumped into situations too quickly without thinking it through. N B Forrest was able to "think in the saddle" and reason quicker keeping him out of trouble (most times)

 

[cash]

Here's a view of Custer from someone who fought under him:

"Brave but not reckless; self-confident, yet modest; ambitious, but regulating his conduct at all times by a high sense of honor and duty; eager for laurels, but scorning to wear them unworthily; ready and willing to act, but regardful of human life; quick in emergencies, cool and self-possessed, his courage was of the highest moral type, his perceptions were intuitions. Showy like Murat, fiery like Farnsworth, yet calm and self-reliant like Sheridan, he was the most brilliant and successful cavalry officer of his time. Such a man had appeared upon the scene, and soon we learned to utter with pride the name of -- Custer." [James H. Kidd, Personal Reflections of a Cavalryman, p. 130]


"Stars of the first magnitude did not appear often in the galaxy of military heroes. Custer was one of the few. The popular idea of Custer is a misconception. He was not a reckless commander. He was not regardless of human life. No man could have been more careful of the comfort and lives of his men. His heart was tender as that of a woman. He was kind to his subordinates, tolerant of their weaknesses, always ready to help and encourage them. He was brave as a lion, fought as few men fought, but it was from no love of it. Fighting was his business; and he knew that by that means alone could peace be conquered. He was brave, alert, untiring, a hero in battle, relentless in the pursuit of a beaten enemy, stubborn and full of resources on the retreat. His tragic death at the Little Big Horn crowned his career with a tragic interest that will not wane while history or tradition endure. Hundreds of brave men shed tears when they heard of it--men who had served under and learned to love him in the trying times of civil war." [James H. Kidd, Riding With Custer: Recollections of a Cavalryman in the Civil War, p. 131]

 

[UCVRelics]

Forrest hands down. The only studies done at the US Army War College concerning Custer was what NOT to do.

 

[jackt62]

While Custer and Forrest were both highly aggressive and charismatic commanders, Forest was probably the most innovative of the two. Two of his major innovations were pioneering the use of artillery in his front line to bust through enemy ranks as a 19th century version of a tank corps; and dismounting his cavalry to fight as infantry similar to the use of 20th century airborne forces which are transported to the front by aircraft or helicopter to fight as infantry on the ground.

 

[dlofting]

Forrest hands down. The only studies done at the US Army War College concerning Custer was what NOT to do.

Certainly not trying to denigrate Forrest as he was a great commander of independent cavalry.....not so much in support of an army. Custer was no fool, although he could be impetuous at times. At the Little Bighorn he employed standard tactics which turned out to be wrong......not his fault, but the Lakota/Cheyenne/Arapaho were more numerous, better lead and more willing to fight than anyone in the US Army realized.

 

[cash]

Certainly not trying to denigrate Forrest as he was a great commander of independent cavalry.....not so much in support of an army. Custer was no fool, although he could be impetuous at times. At the Little Bighorn he employed standard tactics which turned out to be wrong......not his fault, but the Lakota/Cheyenne/Arapaho were more numerous, better lead and more willing to fight than anyone in the US Army realized.

As Crook found out at the Rosebud. Unfortunately, the results of the Battle of the Rosebud were unknown to Custer as he approached the LBH. There were a number of factors that went into his defeat there. Based on previous behavior of the Native Americans, the worry wasn't how many there were. The worry was that they would get away. Custer's plan was for Reno to hold the warriors at the front door while he circled round to the back door and captured the noncombatants, which would cause the warriors to surrender. Reno failed to do his part, freeing the warriors to go after Custer.

 

[diane]

As Crook found out at the Rosebud. Unfortunately, the results of the Battle of the Rosebud were unknown to Custer as he approached the LBH. There were a number of factors that went into his defeat there. Based on previous behavior of the Native Americans, the worry wasn't how many there were. The worry was that they would get away. Custer's plan was for Reno to hold the warriors at the front door while he circled round to the back door and captured the noncombatants, which would cause the warriors to surrender. Reno failed to do his part, freeing the warriors to go after Custer.

I think Crook could have given Custer a heads-up about that but didn't. Did he know Custer was there? I'm not sure if he did or not. Custer, though, thinking as you show above, allowed Crazy Horse and Gall to lure him where they wanted him to go. What Custer did wrong was get out-generalled.

 

[Stiles/Akin]

I do like Custer too however. He was friends with General P.M.B, Young at West Point.

 

[cash]

I think Crook could have given Custer a heads-up about that but didn't. Did he know Custer was there? I'm not sure if he did or not. Custer, though, thinking as you show above, allowed Crazy Horse and Gall to lure him where they wanted him to go. What Custer did wrong was get out-generalled.

No, there was no possibility of communication between them from what I've seen.

Custer wasn't lured. That was his plan from before the action started. When Reno lost his nerve and retreated, that freed the warriors to concentrate against Custer.

 

[diane]

No, there was no possibility of communication between them from what I've seen.

Custer wasn't lured. That was his plan from before the action started. When Reno lost his nerve and retreated, that freed the warriors to concentrate against Custer.

I gotta get out my Little Bighorn stuff and brush up! Thanks.

Still think Custer met better generals than he was, though!

 

[cash]

I gotta get out my Little Bighorn stuff and brush up! Thanks.

Still think Custer met better generals than he was, though!

I won't argue against Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Gall being outstanding leaders. They were certainly able to take advantage of the opportunity their forcing Reno to retreat created. I think if Custer had Benteen acting in place of Reno, he would have had a better chance. To that extent, he didn't use his resources in the most efficient manner, whereas Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Gall did use their warriors in the best possible way.

 

[dlofting]

To that extent, he didn't use his resources in the most efficient manner, whereas Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Gall did use their warriors in the best possible way.

Definitely true. If you have someone like Reno, who you don't completely trust and perhaps even question his ability you don't give him such an important assignment. Give that job to Benteen or Keogh and keep Reno close to you where you can see what and how he's doing.