Unidentified Weapon

[Pvt.Shattuck]

In this 1919 photo, Massachusetts Governor Calvin Coolidge is inspecting National Guard troops he called in to keep order during the Boston police strike. Those are not 1903 Springfields, the standard US Army rifle of WWI. They have a side mounted trigger that resembles a Civil War muzzleloader. What antiques are these guys carrying?

 

[redbob]

"Trap door" conversions, done by the Army after the Civil War to convert percussion rifles to a cartridge (.45-70) configuration.

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

Looks like Coolidge can't believe it.

 

[johan_steele]

M1884 Trapdoor Springfields w/ the "Rod bayonet." Left overs from the Span Am War, though they were still on inventory during WW1 for rear echelon use. Last known to have seen combat against the Japanese by guerrillas in the Phillipines. That .45-70 cartridge has very similar ballistics to the Whitworth rifle of ACW fame.

 

[Major James B. Ronan II]

Think that is the State Guard. Believe the Massachusetts National Guard was still overseas or being demobilized. The State Guard was made of of those ineligible for service otherwise. The organization was founded to assist public safety personnel while the Guard was overseas. The State Guard still exists in Massachusetts. In California a similar organization is called (or was called) the National Guard Reserve and other states call it the state militia (SC and NC). These organizations are separate and distinct from the National Guard of the several states,

 

[kevikens]

Incredible that those things were still in use. Not a bad gun, quite reliable, but issued in the 2oth Century? As for Coolidge, I'd love to see one of those exercises where we all try to figure out what is going through his mind in this inspection. Oh, sugar. Why did I vote against that military appropriations bill? Or, I wonder if I can get to my bank before they do.

 

[Major James B. Ronan II]

Oh, sugar. Why did I vote against that military appropriations bill? Or, I wonder if I can get to my bank before they do.

Kev, Coolidge's political experience was at local and state level until he was elected Vice President of the US in 1920. He had no input on any defense appropriations.

Regardless of his personal opinion on these issues, who could see that the US would have to raise, equip and train an army of 4 million men and send half of them to Europe to fight for 19 months?

 

[johan_steele]

The thing about obsolete weapons is that they are obsolete only so long as they don't kill you.

 

[DixieRifles]

They have a side mounted trigger that resembles a Civil War muzzleloader.

Do you mean hammer?

Last known to have seen combat against the Japanese by guerrillas in the Phillipines.

When was this? 1942?

These .45-70 still fired black powder---right?

 

[johan_steele]

When was this? 1942?

These .45-70 still fired black powder---right?

Phillipino geurrillas used a few with glee and devestating effect against the Japanese occupation troops. WW2 is also the last time a 3" Ord Rifle was used in anger, one had been converted into a breach loading parade gun. The Japanese placed it in a bunker and it was used against US troops.