Grant Will the real general grant stand up

[civilken]

after winning the Civil War and becoming president of the United States how did this great American whose funeral was seen by more people than Abraham Lincoln. How did he become a drunk a croak and in general just a bad person. Was this a planned attack by the lost course believers to malign him to make There generals look better. it is time to give this great American back his dignity.

 

[Canadian]

after winning the Civil War and becoming president of the United States how did this great American whose funeral was seen by more people than Abraham Lincoln. How did he become a drunk a croak and in general just a bad person. Was this a planned attack by the lost course believers to malign him to make There generals look better. it is time to give this great American back his dignity.

Agreed

 

[General Butterfield]

I'd like to blame this on Lost Causers but I'm not sure they are solely responsible. I have Fitzhugh Lee's book published in 1894 and is an example of Lost Cause material. It makes Lee out to be a greater general than Grant. However Lee does not insult Grant personally, he refers to him as having "excellent qualities of a solider" and goes on to list positive aspects about him. Lee is much harder on the likes of supposed traitor Longstreet then Grant. We can also recall Mary Todd Lincoln calling Grant a "butcher" as well as negative stories in northern press.

I'm unsure, your thoughts?

 

[E_just_E]

How did he become a drunk a croak and in general just a bad person.

I am not sure that Grant was a "bad" person. According to plenty of sources he did like to drink. This makes nobody a bad person.

He won the Civil War and will always be remembered as a great general.

The problem with Grant was that he was horribly ineffective as president including the fact the country faced its largest recession under him. In his cabinet he surrounded himself with friends, instead of the best people. He broke up the Republican party, further messed up Reconstruction, and (even though he did not intended to) messed up the situation out West with the Native tribes, and there was a nasty escalation in hostilities, including the Black Hills War.

He was a horribly ineffective president, and the historical rankings of presidents reflect that.

Great general, horrible president. That's the memory of Grant. Same man. Cannot divorce the general from the president.

 

[contestedground]

He was a horribly ineffective president, and the historical rankings of presidents reflect that.

Actually, nowadays he ranks just about in the middle. So things have changed.

 

[Jimklag]

He was a horribly ineffective president, and the historical rankings of presidents reflect that.

Your own citation shows him in the upper half of presidents (18th out of 45). Show us a credible source that calls him "horrible" or "horribly innefective." Also, in what way did he break up the Republican party? No non-republican was elected until Cleveland and the party kept control of congress.

 

[SWMODave]

Your own citation shows him in the upper half of presidents (18th out of 45). Show us a credible source that calls him "horrible" or "horribly innefective." Also, in what way did he break up the Republican party? No non-republican was elected until Cleveland and the party kept control of congress.

I believe he was the 18th President - the rankings are to the right

 

[Canadian]

I am not sure that Grant was a "bad" person. According to plenty of sources he did like to drink. This makes nobody a bad person.

He won the Civil War and will always be remembered as a great general.

The problem with Grant was that he was horribly ineffective as president including the fact the country faced its largest recession under him. In his cabinet he surrounded himself with friends, instead of the best people. He broke up the Republican party, further messed up Reconstruction, and (even though he did not intended to) messed up the situation out West with the Native tribes, and there was a nasty escalation in hostilities, including the Black Hills War.

He was a horribly ineffective president, and the historical rankings of presidents reflect that.

Great general, horrible president. That's the memory of Grant. Same man. Cannot divorce the general from the president.

You would definitely have to explain how Grant broke up the Republican party.

 

[Jimklag]

I believe he was the 18th President - the rankings are to the right

Ah. Thanks.

 

[E_just_E]

You would definitely have to explain how Grant broke up the Republican party.

Heard of the Liberal Republicans?

 

[Jimklag]

Heard of the Liberal Republicans?

Huh?

 

[contestedground]

To say that Grant broke up the Republican party is to assume that it was unified (it wasn't) and that it had a concrete idea of where it was going after 1868 (it didn't). The party had achieved its original reason for being, and with those goals addressed (and with a new generation of leaders), people disagreed over other issues. Grant presided over a reforming of the party that took it into the 20th century.

 

[wausaubob]

The Republican party prospered on a platform of balanced budgets, refusal to turn monetary policy over to Congress, and a pro business judiciary. That platform evolved into the issues advocated by the modern Republican party.

 

[jackt62]

As has been correctly pointed out in these posts, Grant maintained his reputation as one of the greatest military commanders, despite his critics claims that he was a "drunkard" and/or a "butcher." But his presidential leadership was considered less effective particularly since he was known to be too trusting of certain individuals who were able to mine his administration for their own corrupt acts. So for many decades Grant was tarred with that "failed" presidency. But more recent scholarship is providing a more balanced view of his presidency, particularly in regard to Grant's efforts at Reconstruction.

 

[wausaubob]

Why is anyone searching for Grant? Lots of public people thought highly of him.
Other public people who opposed the things Grant stood for thought poorly of him.
Is that different from any other political figure?
Everyone thought Napoleon was the cat's pajamas, until he lost, then he was an aggressive autocrat.

 

[wausaubob]

Some public people, like Robert E. Lee and George McClellan, did not necessarily like Grant, but they set a good example and kept their mouths shut.

 

[Bruce Vail]

Grant's contemporary detractors came from all over the political spectrum:

1) Jealous Union officers (both Dem and Rep) who envied his success
2) Embittered Confederates unable to 'get over it'
3) Northern Democrats who wanted their party returned to power in the Congress and the WH
4) Liberal Republican dissatisfied with Grant's more conservative positions
5) Eastern snobs who sneered at Grant's modest Midwestern roots

All of these factions disseminated their criticisms in Grant's lifetime, so there is a body of historical documentation that lives on, without regard to the merits of the criticism.

 

[Canadian]

Heard of the Liberal Republicans?

Still considered a threat, like the KnowNothings, the Peace vs. War Democrats, the Federalists and ...

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

I am not sure that Grant was a "bad" person. According to plenty of sources he did like to drink. This makes nobody a bad person.

I think that depends on one's belief system. Also, "likes to drink" is a very broad brush.

The debate these days seems to still be "Grant couldn't hold his liquor" vs "Grant was an alcoholic" which are different animals. People who rarely drink often can't hold their liquor while many alcoholics can.

Lots of public people thought highly of him.

Lots of people thought Truman was a terrible president, but his stock has risen substantially.

Whether one is thought highly of by one's peers is not the end all be all of a person's merits.

 

[E_just_E]

Huh?

here.