Mary Todd Lincoln Why the extravagant spending during wartime?

[Salterr]

Hi everyone,
Leaving the comforts of the relic section to ask this question. It started by, well, looking at relics I came across a shawl or some article of clothing that Mary had bought. It was for sale in one of the larger relic shops but the write up article suggested that she was very frivolous with her spending. I have not read any sort of biography on her but even so, what's with that behavior knowing the war was raging on?

 

[archieclement]

Her mental state has always seemed and continues to be questioned. Today compulsive buying is often classified as a personality disorder. Extravagance while others are asked to sacrifice could be considered rather narcissistic as well, though she certainly seems to have fit borderline personality disorder.

"People with BPD experience intense and unstable emotions and relationships, and may have feelings of emptiness and fear of abandonment. They may also engage in behaviors such as self-harm, suicidal threats, and angry outbursts."

 

[Salterr]

Her mental state has always seemed and continues to be questioned. Today compulsive buying is often classified as a personality disorder. Extravagance while others are asked to sacrifice could be considered rather narcissistic as well, though she certainly seems to have fit borderline personality disorder.

"People with BPD experience intense and unstable emotions and relationships, and may have feelings of emptiness and fear of abandonment. They may also engage in behaviors such as self-harm, suicidal threats, and angry outbursts."

Thank you @archieclement, I hadn't considered that aspect. I can see now that it may have been an illness instead of just being out of touch with the happenings of the period

 

[Private Joseph]

This is just my personal opinion but I think that Mary Lincoln has gotten a lot of bad press over the years. Some deserved, some not. I can tell you that when a parent 'loses' a child their mind can go off in a lot of different directions, even in those days when infant mortality was higher. Eddy died in 1850 just shy of his fifth birthday. Then Willie in 1862. Tad in 1870, and of course her husband in 1865.
The fact that she got up every morning without jumping off a cliff or putting a pistol to her head indicates to me she was a strong, resilant woman though troubled.

 

[TallTallMan]

Being a railroad lawyer, and considering Robert was at Harvard, it's not like the Lincolns suffered from a want of moolah.

 

[Belfoured]

Being a railroad lawyer, and considering Robert was at Harvard, it's not like the Lincolns suffered from a want of moolah.

Enough with the lawyer bashing. Abe won the ICRR a bundle in tax savings in Illinois Central Railroad v. McLean County, 17 Ill. 291 (1855). Then he had to go sue his cheap client for his $5K in attorney's fees.

 

[Salterr]

I can understand that end of it too. Do you believe this behavior started before or after as a result of their deaths? @Private Joseph

 

[Library Lady]

Enough with the lawyer bashing. Abe won the ICRR a bundle in tax savings in Illinois Central Railroad v. McLean County, 17 Ill. 291 (1855). Then he had to go sue his cheap client for his $5K in attorney's fees.

So McClellan had "the slows" signing the check? I don't think I can blame it on Ambrose Burnside as treasurer because he didn't come to work for the IC until around 1858.

Here's more than you want to know about Lincoln and the IC.

Mr. Lincoln for the Defense - Riding the Illinois Central - Dunleith and Dubuque Bound -

Prologue On Saturday, September 27, 1856, Colonel Roswell B. Mason, engineer-in-chief for the Illinois Central Railroad Company, notified the railroad’s…

thelensofhistory.com

 

[Library Lady]

Hi everyone,
Leaving the comforts of the relic section to ask this question. It started by, well, looking at relics I came across a shawl or some article of clothing that Mary had bought. It was for sale in one of the larger relic shops but the write up article suggested that she was very frivolous with her spending. I have not read any sort of biography on her but even so, what's with that behavior knowing the war was raging on?View attachment 532534

Did the shop get $6500 for the shawl? If so, it's a shame Mary isn't around to get a cut of that. When she tried to sell her "First Lady" clothes after the war, it was an unmitigated disaster. So very different from today when people willingly pay serious money for Princess Diana's dresses.

 

[Belfoured]

So McClellan had "the slows" signing the check? I don't think I can blame it on Ambrose Burnside as treasurer because he didn't come to work for the IC until around 1858.

Here's more than you want to know about Lincoln and the IC.

Mr. Lincoln for the Defense - Riding the Illinois Central - Dunleith and Dubuque Bound -

Prologue On Saturday, September 27, 1856, Colonel Roswell B. Mason, engineer-in-chief for the Illinois Central Railroad Company, notified the railroad’s…

thelensofhistory.com

Good find. There are actually a few good stories about Lincoln's ICRR cases in the Illinois Supreme Court.

 

[Private Joseph]

I can understand that end of it too. Do you believe this behavior started before or after as a result of their deaths? @Private Joseph

I believe after Eddy's death Mary started to slip. Everyone handles grief differently. And I think the loss of a child is much more traumatic for the mother. In modern times a couple is far more likely to divorce after the loss of a child than at any other time. Also alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.
It's like being in the middle of a big muddy field and the harder you try to pull one foot out the other just sinks deeper...

 

[7thWisconsin]

Mary Todd was also very smart and witty, but moving in circles where women were supposed to sit still and look pretty. I think that contributed to a lot of the ill will that she encountered. I do believe that she had compulsive spending disorder, and we would call her clinically depressed today. So she had a very steep hill to climb. History, like her detractors, has been less than kind. I look at her this way: the most decent man in America saw something in her and loved her dearly. That must go in her plus column somewhere.
I think Mary Todd saw the White House as badly underappointed for the kind of work that state dinners really are. The last china was from something like 2 administrations ago, and there weren´t enough matching pieces for a state dinner. Chinette hadn´t been invented yet, so she had t do something!

 

[Salterr]

Did the shop get $6500 for the shawl? If so, it's a shame Mary isn't around to get a cut of that. When she tried to sell her "First Lady" clothes after the war, it was an unmitigated disaster. So very different from today when people willingly pay serious money for Princess Diana's dresses.

It just went up but I don't expect it to last long. In the write up it mentions either this piece or another piece of clothing she purchased would be the modern equivalent of $10,000 in todays money in comparison to her original purchase price

 

[JackADriscoll]

Retail therapy is definitely a thing

 

[archieclement]

She's poster child of compulsive spender even today........it's kind of hard to rationalize buying 400 pairs of gloves in four months......

Mary Todd Lincoln: Compulsive Shopper, Severe Debt Problems

American Consumer Credit Counseling is back with another history lesson! Let's learn about Mary Todd Lincoln's debt.

www.consumercredit.com

 

[Library Lady]

She's poster child of compulsive spender even today........it's kind of hard to rationalize buying 400 pairs of gloves in four months......

Mary Todd Lincoln: Compulsive Shopper, Severe Debt Problems

American Consumer Credit Counseling is back with another history lesson! Let's learn about Mary Todd Lincoln's debt.

www.consumercredit.com

This article has an interesting perspective on the gloves.

Mary Lincoln's Shopping Habits in Perspective

Mary Lincoln's shopping habits were widely criticized, however, it all started with trying to be a good first lady.

americacomesalive.com

This article gives some perspective on refurbishing the White House. Apparently, the public had no compunction about helping themselves to "souvenirs" when they visited.

Changes in the White House - Mr. Lincoln's White House

Learn More: White House Downstairs Upstairs Non Public Areas Grounds and Entrance Changes in the White House Looting/destruction of White House in 1864-65 Picking Up and Leaving Redecorating the White House The White House had deteriorated during President James Buchanan’s…Read more ›

www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org

Here's more than you want to know about White House china. Apparently, Mrs. Lincoln's acquisition wasn't that weird. I seem to recall that Mrs. Reagan got some pushback, too.

Which Administration Had the Chicest White House China?

From James Monroe to Barack Obama, a look back at presidential china through the years

www.architecturaldigest.com

 

[Salterr]

This article has an interesting perspective on the gloves.

Mary Lincoln's Shopping Habits in Perspective

Mary Lincoln's shopping habits were widely criticized, however, it all started with trying to be a good first lady.

americacomesalive.com

This article gives some perspective on refurbishing the White House. Apparently, the public had no compunction about helping themselves to "souvenirs" when they visited.

Changes in the White House - Mr. Lincoln's White House

Learn More: White House Downstairs Upstairs Non Public Areas Grounds and Entrance Changes in the White House Looting/destruction of White House in 1864-65 Picking Up and Leaving Redecorating the White House The White House had deteriorated during President James Buchanan’s…Read more ›

www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org

Here's more than you want to know about White House china. Apparently, Mrs. Lincoln's acquisition wasn't that weird. I seem to recall that Mrs. Reagan got some pushback, too.

Which Administration Had the Chicest White House China?

From James Monroe to Barack Obama, a look back at presidential china through the years

www.architecturaldigest.com

Very enjoyable reading, thank you.

 

[Salterr]

This article has an interesting perspective on the gloves.

Mary Lincoln's Shopping Habits in Perspective

Mary Lincoln's shopping habits were widely criticized, however, it all started with trying to be a good first lady.

americacomesalive.com

This article gives some perspective on refurbishing the White House. Apparently, the public had no compunction about helping themselves to "souvenirs" when they visited.

Changes in the White House - Mr. Lincoln's White House

Learn More: White House Downstairs Upstairs Non Public Areas Grounds and Entrance Changes in the White House Looting/destruction of White House in 1864-65 Picking Up and Leaving Redecorating the White House The White House had deteriorated during President James Buchanan’s…Read more ›

www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org

Here's more than you want to know about White House china. Apparently, Mrs. Lincoln's acquisition wasn't that weird. I seem to recall that Mrs. Reagan got some pushback, too.

Which Administration Had the Chicest White House China?

From James Monroe to Barack Obama, a look back at presidential china through the years

www.architecturaldigest.com

I think presidential china could be its own topic here as well. Thank you for sharing

 

[archieclement]

This article has an interesting perspective on the gloves.

Mary Lincoln's Shopping Habits in Perspective

Mary Lincoln's shopping habits were widely criticized, however, it all started with trying to be a good first lady.

americacomesalive.com

This article gives some perspective on refurbishing the White House. Apparently, the public had no compunction about helping themselves to "souvenirs" when they visited.

Changes in the White House - Mr. Lincoln's White House

Learn More: White House Downstairs Upstairs Non Public Areas Grounds and Entrance Changes in the White House Looting/destruction of White House in 1864-65 Picking Up and Leaving Redecorating the White House The White House had deteriorated during President James Buchanan’s…Read more ›

www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org

Here's more than you want to know about White House china. Apparently, Mrs. Lincoln's acquisition wasn't that weird. I seem to recall that Mrs. Reagan got some pushback, too.

Which Administration Had the Chicest White House China?

From James Monroe to Barack Obama, a look back at presidential china through the years

www.architecturaldigest.com

Yes and it concluded Mary indeed did have a shopping/spending problem.

The article I provided I thought it was rather sobering the personal debt she ran up in 4 years at white house would be $400,000 in today's money.......and remember that is on top of money Congress did budget.

 

[DBF]

@Salterr - Perhaps this thread might give you some insight.

A Tuesday Tea Goes Shopping with Mary Todd Lincoln | Ladies Tea - War from a Feminine Perspective

Mary Todd Lincoln may not have had the happiest family life when she was growing up a little girl, however Mary came from a family of means. She was afforded a wonderful education where she studied the "fine arts" and throughout her life she grew to appreciate the finer things in life. As Mary...

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