West Pointism

[atlantis]

West Points graduates brought many valuable skills to the confederate army, but none had commanded a Corp much less an army. The Mexican war experience of the graduates did it not blind them to the fact the Rebellion was going to be a conflict of a different nature, not to mention the advances in weapon technology.
So, was Davis right to rely so heavenly on West Point Graduates are should he have been more open to non-west point graduates in senior positions.

 

[GELongstreet]

Haupt had both, a West Point education and experience from civil life. He was a very fortunate choice for his job.

 

[Belfoured]

Haupt had both, a West Point education and experience from civil life. He was a very fortunate choice for his job.

Yep. He was the opposite of Polk. Both were guys who graduated USMA but then promptly resigned their commissions. The difference is that when the ACW came Haupt was appointed to a position where he would use his extensive civilian experience in the RR business. Polk was given a major military command which had nothing to do with his civilian experience as a cleric.

 

[Library Lady]

McClellan had railroad experience with the Illinois Central as chief engineer (civil engineer not train-driving engineer) and VP. How do you think he would have performed in Haupt's role as opposed to the one he (McClellan) got? I'm not slamming Haupt; I'm wondering if his role would have been a better fit for McClellan than army commander was.

 

[Stryker65]

McClellan had railroad experience with the Illinois Central as chief engineer (civil engineer not train-driving engineer) and VP. How do you think he would have performed in Haupt's role as opposed to the one he (McClellan) got? I'm not slamming Haupt; I'm wondering if his role would have been a better fit for McClellan than army commander was.

It would be quite interesting to consider how each general would have performed based on their civilian experience (This isn't sarcasm, I'm actually wondering this). One of my biggest thoughts is about how artillerists like Magruder and Jackson would have performed if they stayed in the artillery.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Yep. He was the opposite of Polk. Both were guys who graduated USMA but then promptly resigned their commissions. The difference is that when the ACW came Haupt was appointed to a position where he would use his extensive civilian experience in the RR business. Polk was given a major military command which had nothing to do with his civilian experience as a cleric.

You are absolutely right. Polk is a candidate (along with Buckner and Bragg, by the way) to make my personal list of The Worst Five Confederate Generals of the Civil War.

 

[35th MA InfRegt]

McClellan had railroad experience with the Illinois Central as chief engineer (civil engineer not train-driving engineer) and VP. How do you think he would have performed in Haupt's role as opposed to the one he (McClellan) got? I'm not slamming Haupt; I'm wondering if his role would have been a better fit for McClellan than army commander was.

George strikes me as a man who would have been unhappy serving in a non-command role where there was little glory or public attention to be won. I don't doubt McClellan had the technical chops to do the job (civil engineering on the RR), but I reckon that like Haupt, he would have thrown in the towel sooner or later. But I doubt he would ever have accepted such a subordinate role to begin with when both states (Pennsylvania, New York, Ohio) and the federal government are dangling general's stars in front of his eyes.

 

[Belfoured]

McClellan had railroad experience with the Illinois Central as chief engineer (civil engineer not train-driving engineer) and VP. How do you think he would have performed in Haupt's role as opposed to the one he (McClellan) got? I'm not slamming Haupt; I'm wondering if his role would have been a better fit for McClellan than army commander was.

Haupt had much longer and far more extensive experience than did McClellan in the RR business. Haupt worked in that business 1835-1840 and 1847-1861. McClellan worked in it 1857-1861. Haupt also designed a truss and supervised tunnel work.

 

[Dan Kohli]

It would be quite interesting to consider how each general would have performed based on their civilian experience (This isn't sarcasm, I'm actually wondering this). One of my biggest thoughts is about how artillerists like Magruder and Jackson would have performed if they stayed in the artillery.

Talking about keeping artillerists in artillery, it could be argued that they should have had Sigel in a artillery command. He was an artillery officer before he moved to the U.S. if I remember correctly, and he definitely seemed out of his element when he had an infantry command.

 

[Library Lady]

It would be quite interesting to consider how each general would have performed based on their civilian experience (This isn't sarcasm, I'm actually wondering this). One of my biggest thoughts is about how artillerists like Magruder and Jackson would have performed if they stayed in the artillery.

That's a really interesting thought about Jackson. It leads me to a whole different "what if Jackson had been at Gettysburg" question: Would he have had any better outcome before/during Pickett's charge that E. Porter Alexander did and what would E. Porter Alexander's role have been if he wasn't chief of artillery for the Army of Northern Virginia? Alexander seemed to be a gent of many talents. Is there a role he would have been even better at than artillery?

 

[35th MA InfRegt]

That's a really interesting thought about Jackson. It leads me to a whole different "what if Jackson had been at Gettysburg" question: Would he have had any better outcome before/during Pickett's charge that E. Porter Alexander did and what would E. Porter Alexander's role have been if he wasn't chief of artillery for the Army of Northern Virginia? Alexander seemed to be a gent of many talents. Is there a role he would have been even better at than artillery?

Alexander would have made a passable Chief Signal Officer for the ANV. Before the war, he had worked with Albert Myer, the Union officer who developed flag signalling for the US Army and introduced the system into the Confederate army.

 

[Belfoured]

Talking about keeping artillerists in artillery, it could be argued that they should have had Sigel in a artillery command. He was an artillery officer before he moved to the U.S. if I remember correctly, and he definitely seemed out of his element when he had an infantry command.

As a general issue, one problem was that several of the good ones who started the ACW in that branch moved to the infantry so that they could get higher rank and pay. Griffin, Ricketts, Gibbon, and Upton come readily to mind, among others.