Were Confederate Generals Traitors?

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#1
Were Confederate Generals Traitors? by Walter Williams.

"My "Rewriting American History" column of a fortnight ago,generated considerable mail. Some argued there should not be statues honoring traitors such as Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Jefferson Davis, who fought against the Union. Victors of wars get to write the history, and the history they write often does not reflect the facts. Let's look at some of the facts and ask: Did the South have a right to secede from the Union? If it did, we can't label Confederate generals as traitors."

https://www.creators.com/read/walter-williams/06/17/were-confederate-generals-traitors


 
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#2
Were Confederate Generals Traitors? by Walter Williams.

"My "Rewriting American History" column of a fortnight ago, , generated considerable mail. Some argued there should not be statues honoring traitors such as Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Jefferson Davis, who fought against the Union. Victors of wars get to write the history, and the history they write often does not reflect the facts. Let's look at some of the facts and ask: Did the South have a right to secede from the Union? If it did, we can't label Confederate generals as traitors."

https://www.creators.com/read/walter-williams/06/17/were-confederate-generals-traitors
Post Civil War ex Confederate generals were not considered traitors. Former Confederate General Wheeler was technically the commander of U.S. troops in Cuba during the Spanish-American War. Wheeler during one battle against the Spanish said something to the effect that he thought he was still fighting the Yankees.
Former Confederate General Longstreet commanded milita against the Red Shirts in Louisiana. Longstreet was also appointed Minister to the Ottoman Empire.
Former Confederate General Alexander Porter was appointed to a diplomatic position in Nicaragua.
As for the legality of secession that matter as already been addressed by Texas v White. If the author wishs he can try to get the American people to support a counstiutional amendment to allow states in the future to more easily secede.
Leftyhunter
 
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#3
I always find it very strange that John Brown was the only one hanged for treason.

Perhaps they should have been, but I want to trust Lincoln's judgment on "Let 'em up easy." He thought that forgiveness was the best path to peace.

You could have a whole debate on what would have happened to the country had there been harsher penalties, like hangings.
 

jgoodguy

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#7
Did the South have a right to secede from the Union? If it did, we can't label Confederate generals as traitors."
The so called secession was a rebellion and thus anyone fighting for the CSA especially as a general is prima facia a traitor during the rebellion. Everyone after the war got a pardon. No general was prosecuted under municipal law as a traitor and traitor is not recognized in the main by military law.

The South had a right to secede, but chose rebellion instead of negotiation and in doing so chose trial by combat instead of political or judicial resolution and upon failure of victory utterly lost the issue.
 
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#9
Going down that path is divisive.
Going down that path creates a division like France against Germany.
More to the purpose of the argument, it creates a division like the Reds against the Whites in post-Revolutionary Russia.
Permanent Civil War and permanent loyalty politics creates its own winners and losers and leads directly to modern politics.
 

jgoodguy

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#10
Going down that path is divisive.
Going down that path creates a division like France against Germany.
More to the purpose of the argument, it creates a division like the Reds against the Whites in post-Revolutionary Russia.
Permanent Civil War and permanent loyalty politics creates its own winners and losers and leads directly to modern politics.
Could be, but the folks passionately interested in secession have gray hair, those who are not interested have smart phones.
 
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#11
The so called secession was a rebellion and thus anyone fighting for the CSA especially as a general is prima facia a traitor during the rebellion. Everyone after the war got a pardon. No general was prosecuted under municipal law as a traitor and traitor is not recognized in the main by military law.

The South had a right to secede, but chose rebellion instead of negotiation and in doing so chose trial by combat instead of political or judicial resolution and upon failure of victory utterly lost the issue.
They had a right, but the right probably had to exercised by a constitutional convention of big shots.
The big shots from Kentucky and Missouri probably say, wait, we don't want to be cutoff from the Midwest. The big shots from New York starting worrying about all those mortgages. All the banks that made multi-year loans are pretty worried.
The New England textile companies begin to focus on one state like Arkansas or Tennessee and make it clear that a state that starts providing tenant produced cotton is going to have a head start.
Armed elections break out in Missouri, Maryland and Virginia anyway, unless the body guards for the big shots start the war at the constitutional convention.
 

CSA Today

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#12
The so called secession was a rebellion and thus anyone fighting for the CSA especially as a general is prima facia a traitor during the rebellion. Everyone after the war got a pardon. No general was prosecuted under municipal law as a traitor and traitor is not recognized in the main by military law.

The South had a right to secede, but chose rebellion instead of negotiation and in doing so chose trial by combat instead of political or judicial resolution and upon failure of victory utterly lost the issue.
Especially in light of Lincoln's known willingness to recognized Confederate independence as long as Southerners used the right semantics and sought Northern approval. :nah disagree:
 

archieclement

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#13
Going down that path is divisive.
Going down that path creates a division like France against Germany.
More to the purpose of the argument, it creates a division like the Reds against the Whites in post-Revolutionary Russia.
Permanent Civil War and permanent loyalty politics creates its own winners and losers and leads directly to modern politics.
The whole traitor thing as an excuse to try to erase part of history is ironic to me......We were founded on treason.....So any of the founding fathers who advocated or fought for treason we should remove all traces of? Those silly Texans who thought they should be independent of Mexico......do away with any trace of them?

And it does seem divisive to suggest half of the country has no right to honor their forefathers, history, and heritage.
 
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#15
Could be, but the folks passionately interested in secession have gray hair, those who are not interested have smart phones.
I am the northerner, like Lincoln. My position is that I don't want a war over secession and slavery. I suggest that everyone study the Crimean War. My question is are you sure its going to be short and glorious?
My position: slavery has to end by January 1, 1900, and there was to be a 5% decrease in slaves by 1868.
You can have slavery in New Mexico. I want slavery ended in D.C. and the repeal of the Fugitive Slave Act.
I'll dredge the harbor in Galveston and throw major funding behind a railroad from Vicksburg to Monroe, LA to Shreveport, LA to Marshall, TX. What is your counter offer?
 

jgoodguy

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#16
Especially in light of Lincoln's known willingness to recognized Confederate independence as long as Southerners used the right semantics and sought Northern approval. :nah disagree:
So how many days was Lincoln President before the headstrong impulsive aristocratic slave owner used to having ultimate power over men and contemptuous of Northern citizens CSA president with a painful eye ache opened fire?
 
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#17
So how many days was Lincoln President before the headstrong impulsive aristocratic slave owner used to having ultimate power over men and contemptuous of Northern citizens CSA president with a painful eye ache opened fire?
Furthermore, I'll offer a 10% subsidy for cotton sold out of a state that abolishes slavery and impose a 10% tax on slave produced cotton, under the commerce clause.
 

jgoodguy

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#20
Just to offer an indication that this may not necessarily be true:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-4-of-10-back-secession-half-of-millennials/article/2634805

Disgust with Washington has fired up the secession movement, with about four-in-10, and half of millennials, supporting a state's right to leave the union, a traitorous move akin to the Civil War.

A New John Zogby Strategies survey found that 39 percent agree that states have the "ultimate say over their destiny and that secession is a right."

What's more, 47 percent of younger Americans, 18-29, also give secession a thumbs up.​
I think a State has a right to leave the Union under the Constitution and peacefully. So what?

Looks like the secessionists are in there with ghosts and creationists and not far a head of UFOs

According to a 2009 Harris Poll of 2,303 adult Americans, when people are asked to “Please indicate for each one if you believe in it, or not,” the following results were revealing:
  • 42% believe in ghosts
  • 40% believe in creationism
  • 32% believe in UFOs
  • 26% believe in astrology
  • 23% believe in witches
  • 20% believe in reincarnation
 



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