Were Confederate Generals Traitors?

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uaskme

2nd Lieutenant
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Yankees got what they wanted. Republicans got Political Control. The East got Economic Control. Why bother further with Treason Or the Negro? Just study the Period of Compromise in 1877 and Reconciliation. Further hostilities were thought to be Bad for Business and Investment. Yankees needed the Business and the South needed Investment.
 

jgoodguy

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Yankees got what they wanted. Republicans got Political Control. The East got Economic Control. Why bother further with Treason Or the Negro? Just study the Period of Compromise in 1877 and Reconciliation. Further hostilities were thought to be Bad for Business and Investment. Yankees needed the Business and the South needed Investment.
And the South got to manage the African Americans as they pleased.
 

atlantis

First Sergeant
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Nov 12, 2016
What to call the conflicted has been debated here before and it seems to me that the official gov't term of great rebellion is accurate. A rebel and a traitor are not always one an the same.
 
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WilliamH

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Southerners were put into a position where they had to choose to follow their States and fight to form a new country or stay loyal to the Union and fight against their family, friends and neighbors. In such a position they were always going to be seen as traitors by one side or the other. The Choice was either to betray one’s country or to betray one’s home, family, friends, neighbors, etc…. General Lee might be considered a traitor to the United States but General G. Thomas was considered a traitor to his family.

Speaking legally (I am no lawyer) being pardoned of a crime does not mean you are guilty of committing said crime. Only a legal conviction or confession makes one legally guilty of something, of course being legally guilty of a crime still doesn’t mean you actually committed the crime.

As far as I know, no Confederate general/soldier was legally convicted of being a traitor.
 
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archieclement

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Location
mo
And the South got to manage the African Americans as they pleased.
Apparently the north did too, In Lincoln's own home state their was 1908 Springfield riots, 1917 East St Louis riots, and the 1919 Chicago race riots against blacks.

Indiana, Kansas, Nebraska, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Utah, Washington, Wyoming all passed Jim Crow laws concerning miscegenation and segregation.......It wasn't exactly just the south doing so..........

It also seems pretty clear sundown towns were not limited to the south either........According to sociologist James Loewen, the American public generally associates racism with the Deep South. Due to this misconception, sundown towns are thought to only exist in the South. Hollywood also plays into this misconception by portraying sundown towns as only occurring in the Southern United States. Loewen asserts that sundown towns are more likely to exist in the Northern region of the United States.

Between 1890 and 1940, several counties in New England forced their African American populations to leave. African Americans living in rural New England were driven to urban areas.

If one wants to discuss racism, lets not pretend it is or was just ever isolated to one area of the United States..............or for that matter just against one race.......
 
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Burning Billy

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A rebel and a traitor are not always one an the same.
Sure they are. No country's laws permit violent insurrection against itself. The very act of rebellion always involves treason against the state you're rebelling against. Every rebel that ever existed in human history committed treason against one government or another.

Sometimes treason is morally justified however, even if not legally permitted. I'd argue the Confederates had neither moral or legal justification.
 

gem

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
I tend to lean towards one man's traitor actually depends on if they were ever charged and convicted of treason..........and if so not much heroic bout that........
Even if one was never charged or convicted (in an efforts towards reconciliation) does that lessen crime, or the burden that was created by the crime?
 
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Just to offer an indication that this may not necessarily be true:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-4-of-10-back-secession-half-of-millennials/article/2634805

Disgust with Washington has fired up the secession movement, with about four-in-10, and half of millennials, supporting a state's right to leave the union, a traitorous move akin to the Civil War.

A New John Zogby Strategies survey found that 39 percent agree that states have the "ultimate say over their destiny and that secession is a right."

What's more, 47 percent of younger Americans, 18-29, also give secession a thumbs up.​
So? You'll get the same results from the millennial generation vs. the older generations in this country when posing polls with subjects such as socialism vs our current system of government, legal rights for animals, &c., &c. or a multitude of other subjects. I'd bet that the majority of millennials that answer these polls have very little understanding of the subject matter at hand.
 
No Confederate officer was ever indicted for treason by the United States Supreme Court. So all you treason mongers can chill out. You only say that to either irritate Southerners or to just be pretentious. :wink: I am smiling.
The SCOTUS doesn't indict. Lee, Longstreet, and thirtysome other ex-Confederates were indicted by the Federal prosecutor during June, 1865 for the crime of treason.
 
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gem

2nd Lieutenant
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Oct 26, 2012
If one was never charged or convicted they have no connection to whatever crime you speak of........
According to the United States government under the presidency of Abraham Lincoln, the CSA was in rebellion against the United States. Its true that they weren't tried but the US government never rescinded the fact that they were in rebellion either.
 

archieclement

Captain
Joined
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Location
mo
so they perhaps were rebels.

And while I would agree lack of one being charged and convicted of a crime isn't exactly 100% guarantee of any innocence......It most assuredly isn't any indication of guilt, and our system leans towards the presumption of innocence and having due process....

So I'll refer to someone who was convicted of treason as a traitor, I don't apply it to individuals who never were convicted of treason though..........
 
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Jimklag

Lt. Colonel
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Chicagoland
so they perhaps were rebels.

And while I would agree lack of one being charged and convicted of a crime isn't exactly 100% guarantee of any innocence......It most assuredly isn't any indication of guilt, and our system leans towards the presumption of innocence and having due process....

So I'll refer to someone who was convicted of treason as a traitor, I don't apply it to individuals who never were convicted of treason though..........
See my post #79. No treason, no pardon.
 

jgoodguy

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Apparently the north did too, In Lincoln's own home state their was 1908 Springfield riots, 1917 East St Louis riots, and the 1919 Chicago race riots against blacks.

Indiana, Kansas, Nebraska, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Utah, Washington, Wyoming all passed Jim Crow laws concerning miscegenation and segregation.......It wasn't exactly just the south doing so..........

It also seems pretty clear sundown towns were not limited to the south either........According to sociologist James Loewen, the American public generally associates racism with the Deep South. Due to this misconception, sundown towns are thought to only exist in the South. Hollywood also plays into this misconception by portraying sundown towns as only occurring in the Southern United States. Loewen asserts that sundown towns are more likely to exist in the Northern region of the United States.

Between 1890 and 1940, several counties in New England forced their African American populations to leave. African Americans living in rural New England were driven to urban areas.

If one wants to discuss racism, lets not pretend it is or was just ever isolated to one area of the United States..............or for that matter just against one race.......
Noted.
 
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jgoodguy

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I believe in the U. S. Constitution and that means rebel generals were traitors in all three ways delineated in the Constitution. The fact that Andrew Johnson pardoned them for treasonous acts speaks volumes.
OTOH without a conviction there is no finding of fact or law. Is the facts sufficient for conviction and how is the law interpreted by the court for this offense. Meaning simply anything else is an opinion.
 
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