Was John Schofield Schofield a good general?

[major bill]

John McAlister Schofield certainly had a fine career, but was he a great general? Perhaps he does not get the credit he deserves.

He was not the youngest major general in the Civil War, but was amoung the youngest. During his long military career he was superintendent at West Point, Secretary of War, and commending general of the US Army.This would lead me to believe people in high places thought well of his ability.

During the Civil War he held positions of high responsibility. He won a Medal of Honor. This might show he was a brave officer, but how talented was he?

Schofield had more than a couple of falling outs. Any of which could have cut his career short. As a cadet he was dismissed from West Point, but was eventually reinstated. General Thomas had voted to not reinstated him. Later while at Nashville he sent Grant false information to try and get Grant to relieve Thomas so he could replace him. In the end Schofield replaced Thomas as commanding general of the US Army when Thomas died.

Dispute Schofield's major achievements, both during the Civil War and after the Civil War, his name does not come up much in discussions of great generals.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Later while at Nashville he sent Grant false information to try and get Grant to relieve Thomas so he could replace him.

Schofield didn't send Grant anything from Nashville. That charge originated from Thomas partisans after the war. Grant categorically denied receiving anything from Schofield.

I wouldn't say that Schofield was a "great" general, but I think he was generally competent. I'd recommend John M. Schofield and the Politics of Generalship, by Donald Connelly as an interesting biography.

 

[Rhea Cole]

In this context, what does "great general" mean? There is no question that he was a chronic "curtain climber" obsessed with his advancement. He also had a reputation for "having a high reguard for his own skin." Cleverly, Schofield maneuvered to become one of the editors of the O.R. Many scholars have pointed out that known negatives about Schofield did not survive the editing process. Arguably, these are not admirable traits nor do they fit the positive definition of "great."

That being said. How many generals on either side commanded a demanding an operation as the withdrawal & cover of a miles long wagon train like Schofield did? Under his command, one of the most vicious lopsided battles was won. His arrival in Nashville with his convoy intact & his ad hoc command bringing a massive morale boost to the Nashville garrison was unique. Schofield rose to the challenge at a critical moment. Does that rate the title of "great?"

 

[bdtex]

In this context, what does "great general" mean?

It is a confusing OP. The title says "good general". The first sentence says "great general". Neither term is defined in context. No answer is a wrong answer.

 

[Rhea Cole]

It is a confusing OP. The title says "good general". The first sentence says "great general". Neither term is defined in context. No answer is a wrong answer.

Correct, this raises a slightly different question.

 

[major bill]

Correct, this raises a slightly different question.

He seemed to have performed reasonable well during the Civil War. His post Civil War career was also good.

 

[Saint Jude]

Sherman said that Schofield was slow and left much to others.

 

[tony_gunter]

Schofield and Steele were two generals who worked with the Democrats in Missouri to effectively end the career of Samuel Curtis, so I'm a bit biased.

 

[Sheltowee]

His legacy appears to rest more on Schofield Barracks bearing his name, than any great military accomplishments.

Can't find anything to compel me to sign up for Schofield's fan club….. but I am not so well- read.

Did he (or not) recommend himself for the MOH?

 

[wausaubob]

In this context, what does "great general" mean? There is no question that he was a chronic "curtain climber" obsessed with his advancement. He also had a reputation for "having a high reguard for his own skin." Cleverly, Schofield maneuvered to become one of the editors of the O.R. Many scholars have pointed out that known negatives about Schofield did not survive the editing process. Arguably, these are not admirable traits nor do they fit the positive definition of "great."

That being said. How many generals on either side commanded a demanding an operation as the withdrawal & cover of a miles long wagon train like Schofield did? Under his command, one of the most vicious lopsided battles was won. His arrival in Nashville with his convoy intact & his ad hoc command bringing a massive morale boost to the Nashville garrison was unique. Schofield rose to the challenge at a critical moment. Does that rate the title of "great?"

Except the O.R. had many editors. And much of what remained was self serving fluff.

 

[wausaubob]

His legacy appears to rest more on Schofield Barracks bearing his name, than any great military accomplishments.

Can't find anything to compel me to sign up for Schofield's fan club….. but I am not so well- read.

Did he (or not) recommend himself for the MOH?

He did recommend himself.

 

[wausaubob]

When the war ended, advancement depended on politics. Schofield went to Paris to politely inform the French of reality. Sheridan was the bad cop and Schofield was the good cop and John Schofield seems to have been successful.
General Thomas was posted to California after heading the department of Kentucky. That was probably meant to be a soft post. Unfortunately General Thomas died at his desk in San Francisco. He was never head of the US army.

 

[DanSBHawk]

Did he (or not) recommend himself for the MOH?

From what I understand, officers initially didn't qualify for the MOH. In the 1890's, the army decided to review who they thought should have received MOH. Schofield wasn't the only civil war general to get his MOH in the 1890's. That's when Stanley got his MOH as well.

Quite a while ago, I looked in the Congressional record and it said that Schofield's MOH recommendation was put forward by "friends of Schofield." That doesn't really prove anything either way. He did receive the MOH while he was General-in-Chief of the army.

 

[JerryD]

From what I understand, officers initially didn't qualify for the MOH. In the 1890's, the army decided to review who they thought should have received MOH. Schofield wasn't the only civil war general to get his MOH in the 1890's. That's when Stanley got his MOH as well.

Quite a while ago, I looked in the Congressional record and it said that Schofield's MOH recommendation was put forward by "friends of Schofield." That doesn't really prove anything either way. He did receive the MOH while he was General-in-Chief of the army.

My memory is that they handed out MOH's in the Civil War like they were candy. Over 1500 for the ACW, but less than 500 for WWII, for example.

 

[Sheltowee]

My memory is that they handed out MOH's in the Civil War like they were candy. Over 1500 for the ACW, but less than 500 for WWII, for example.

I've read that one was awarded simply because it was requested. Another after the recipient filed a completely false application.

 

[Enoch L. Cade]

Sherman said that Schofield was slow and left much to others.

If I'm not mistaken, Sherman also complained (to Grant, sometime after New Hope Church/Pickett's Mill but before Kennesaw) of Thomas' sluggishness; "stops at furrows" or something like that. Sherman also complained that Thomas and his staff packed too much baggage and lived like oriental satraps, compared to his (Sherman's) Spartan austerity (either Powell or McMurry said that was due to Thomas and his staff maintaining all the files, etc for Sherman's entire force). My only point is that Sherman was liberal with his complaining, especially when he got the jitters.

 

[Rhea Cole]

If I'm not mistaken, Sherman also complained (to Grant, sometime after New Hope Church/Pickett's Mill but before Kennesaw) of Thomas' sluggishness; "stops at furrows" or something like that. Sherman also complained that Thomas and his staff packed too much baggage and lived like oriental satraps, compared to his (Sherman's) Spartan austerity (either Powell or McMurry said that was due to Thomas and his staff maintaining all the files, etc for Sherman's entire force). My only point is that Sherman was liberal with his complaining, especially when he got the jitters.

General Thomas' H.Q. wagon. L.O.C.

General Thomas' HQ was the template for modern command staffs.

Link:

Thomas Staff – George H. Thomas

The history of General George H. Thomas who was a great general of the American Civil War. George H. Thomas was called the Rock of Chickamauga. Major General George H. Thomas was the commander of the Army of the Cumberland.

generalthomas.com

Thomas' remarkably modern topological office became a key element of Sherman's army group in Georgia. It gave Sherman a distinct advantage over both Johnston & Hood. The March to the Sea might not have been possible without it.

Link:

Uncharted Territory: An Introduction to Civil War Mapping

This article explores Civil War mapping, from how carefully gathered intelligence was transformed into cartography to different map reproduction techniques...

www.battlefields.org

 

[Enoch L. Cade]

View attachment 555973
General Thomas' H.Q. wagon. L.O.C.

General Thomas' HQ was the template for modern command staffs.

Link:

Thomas Staff – George H. Thomas

The history of General George H. Thomas who was a great general of the American Civil War. George H. Thomas was called the Rock of Chickamauga. Major General George H. Thomas was the commander of the Army of the Cumberland.

generalthomas.com

Thomas' remarkably modern topological office became a key element of Sherman's army group in Georgia. It gave Sherman a distinct advantage over both Johnston & Hood. The March to the Sea might not have been possible without it.

Link:

Uncharted Territory: An Introduction to Civil War Mapping

This article explores Civil War mapping, from how carefully gathered intelligence was transformed into cartography to different map reproduction techniques...

www.battlefields.org

Was it Thomas who also pioneered the use of mimeographed maps?

And man -- just imagine how those clerks under the awning were razzed by the troops.

 

[wausaubob]

View attachment 555973
General Thomas' H.Q. wagon. L.O.C.

General Thomas' HQ was the template for modern command staffs.

Link:

Thomas Staff – George H. Thomas

The history of General George H. Thomas who was a great general of the American Civil War. George H. Thomas was called the Rock of Chickamauga. Major General George H. Thomas was the commander of the Army of the Cumberland.

generalthomas.com

Thomas' remarkably modern topological office became a key element of Sherman's army group in Georgia. It gave Sherman a distinct advantage over both Johnston & Hood. The March to the Sea might not have been possible without it.

Link:

Uncharted Territory: An Introduction to Civil War Mapping

This article explores Civil War mapping, from how carefully gathered intelligence was transformed into cartography to different map reproduction techniques...

www.battlefields.org

Sherman decided what needed to be done. And Thomas decided how to do it. They disagreed at Jonesborough I believe. Thomas wanted to go after what remained of Hood's army. But I think Sherman was calculating that capturing the city, and not incurring any more casualties would create headlines that the administration needed. Sherman was getting political advice from the top level of the Ohio Republicans.

 

[Enoch L. Cade]

Sherman decided what needed to be done. And Thomas decided how to do it. They disagreed at Jonesborough I believe. Thomas wanted to go after what remained of Hood's army. But I think Sherman was calculating that capturing the city, and not incurring any more casualties would create headlines that the administration needed. Sherman was getting political advice from the top level of the Ohio Republicans.

I just finished Castel's book on the Atlanta campaign. Very interesting assessment of Sherman's command. And I honestly came away from it with a tad more sympathy for Joe Hooker. I'm looking forward to David Powell finishing his series on the campaign. Volume I is (unsurprisingly) first rate.