J. Johnston Was Joe Johnston Correct About Ranking?

[jackt62]

The story about how Jeff Davis in 1861 nominated to the position of General, 5 senior officers is well known, as is the dispute with Joe Johnston who disagreed with his ranking as no. 4. Johnston believed he deserved to be ranked no. 1 because he held the highest rank of the 5 (brigadier general) in the "Old Army." Davis affirmed that because Johnston's pre-war rank was for a staff position (that of Quartermaster General in the US Army), rather than a line position, he did not qualify for the highest ranking despite the fact that no. 1 (Cooper) had been a colonel, no. 2 (AS Johnston) a colonel, and no. 3 (Lee) a lieutenant colonel. According to the Confederate Act of March 14, 1861 "the commissions issued shall bear one and the same date, so that the relative rank of officer for each grade shall be determined by their former commissions in the United States Army."

I'm inclined to agree with Joe Johnston's position, in that his higher pre-war rank should have entitled him to be ranked no. 1 on the Confederate list of full generals. The fact that he held a staff rather than line position does not seem to appear in the Confederate enabling legislation, and in any case creates an unfair distinction and detracts from the pre-war accomplishment of Johnston. I know this may all seem a bit petty, but career officers have always been extremely protective and sensitive to their relative rankings, so the issue should not be dismissed out of hand. Furthermore, it would have been in the best interests of the Confederacy to ensure a more harmonious relationship between Davis and all his senior generals.
Thoughts?

 

[bankerpapaw]

Davis despised Johnston.

 

[jackt62]

Davis despised Johnston.

That is true and I understand that a feud went back much earlier between the 2. Davis was certainly one to hold a grudge.

 

[NedBaldwin]

I think Johnston was correct. Note that Cooper was alos a staff officer in the US army

 

[James N.]

A. S. Johnston was in fact commanding the Department of California (or whatever it was called if that's not the correct designation) at the beginning of the war as brevet or acting Brigadier General so that seems to me to outrank Joe.

 

[jackt62]

But AS Johnston's brevet rank shouldn't outrank Joe Johnston's regular rank.

 

[Pollaco]

Petty!

 

[jackt62]

Petty!

But expressed or not, I don't think there were too many regular army officers (either of the Union or those who joined the Confederacy), that were not concerned about rank. For sure, Union officers like Grant and Meade knew that promotion to a regular higher rank would be a guarantee of a secure financial existence after the war.

 

[archieclement]

Hmmmm that's the sort of thing for a commander in chief to decide

As all 5 are subordinate to him whatever he decides

 

[jackt62]

Hmmmm that's the sort of thing for a commander in chief to decide

As all 5 are subordinate to him whatever he decides

Even if Davis had total discretion to do so (which I'm not sure was the case), did he make a wise decision?

 

[archieclement]

Yes as JJ didn't ever achieve much to warrant a higher position or promotion.

In fact his performance warrented demotions, sadly out of desperation they had to give him repeated chances.....to be repeatedly let down time and time again.

 

[hughes]

Section 25 of the law passed on March 6, 1861 specified that rank in the Confederates States Army would be determined by virtue of the rank held at the time of resignation from the Army of the United States. Joseph Johnston had transferred to the cavalry from the Quartermaster Corps. He was a Lt. Col. at the time of his resignation and was outranked by Albert Johnston and Robert Lee. His position in the Confederate Army was correctly assigned. He had held the highest rank, that of Brig. Gen. in the US Army but, according to the law of the Confederacy he was properly ranked..

 

[hughes]

I was wrong. I read the law incorrectly and Johnston's timeline incorrectly as well. But, the conclusion is the same. Johnston's highest rank as a line officer was Lt. Col. and that was the determining factor according to the law.

 

[rpkennedy]

I was wrong. I read the law incorrectly and Johnston's timeline incorrectly as well. But, the conclusion is the same. Johnston's highest rank as a line officer was Lt. Col. and that was the determining factor according to the law.

The problem with that is that Samuel Cooper's highest rank as a line officer was as a captain in the 4th Artillery while his colonel rank was a staff position.

Ryan

 

[rpkennedy]

Here are the United States army ranks before their resignations (staff and line commissions):

Samuel Cooper: Captain, 4th Artillery (6/11/36); Colonel, Adjutant General of the US Army (7/15/52)
Alberst S. Johnston: Colonel, 2nd Cavalry (3/3/55)
Robert E. Lee: Colonel, 1st Cavalry (3/16/61)
Joseph E. Johnston: Lieutenant Colonel, Voltigeurs (3/9/47-8/28/48); Captain, Engineers (9/21/46); Brigadier General, Quartermaster General of the US Army (6/28/60)
P.G.T. Beauregard: Captain, Engineers (3/3/53)

Ryan

 

[JeffBrooks]

I was wrong. I read the law incorrectly and Johnston's timeline incorrectly as well. But, the conclusion is the same. Johnston's highest rank as a line officer was Lt. Col. and that was the determining factor according to the law.

But the law makes no distinction between line rank and staff rank. It just says "rank".

 

[MikeyB]

Do i understand this right? That Lee was commissioned the 3rd highest ranking general at the start of the war for the Confederacy, senior to Joe Johnston?

If so, how come Lee was just a glorified advisor to Davis before JJ was wounded? You would think you'd want your firepower in the field?

 

[James N.]

Do i understand this right? That Lee was commissioned the 3rd highest ranking general at the start of the war for the Confederacy, senior to Joe Johnston?

If so, how come Lee was just a glorified advisor to Davis before JJ was wounded? You would think you'd want your firepower in the field?

Some considerations probably included at least part of the following:

Lee was a noted engineer officer in the Old Army and had actually worked on the construction of Fort Pulaski and other installations on the East Coast, so was a prime candidate to make an inspection tour of those sites.

Davis disliked and eventually came to seemingly hate Johnston so wouldn't want to associate with him on a daily basis as he did with the congenial Lee.

Johnston in his sedentary positions first at Winchester and later at Manassas actually had less responsibility than Lee did in his strategic role in Western Virginia, even though one can fairly say he bungled there.

In his role as "advisor" Lee was taking seriously his opportunities to influence strategy within his sphere of influence, as he did when also communicating with and advising Stonewall Jackson in the Shenandoah Valley.

 

[MikeyB]

Here are the United States army ranks before their resignations (staff and line commissions):

Samuel Cooper: Captain, 4th Artillery (6/11/36); Colonel, Adjutant General of the US Army (7/15/52)
Alberst S. Johnston: Colonel, 2nd Cavalry (3/3/55)
Robert E. Lee: Colonel, 1st Cavalry (3/16/61)
Joseph E. Johnston: Lieutenant Colonel, Voltigeurs (3/9/47-8/28/48); Captain, Engineers (9/21/46); Brigadier General, Quartermaster General of the US Army (6/28/60)
P.G.T. Beauregard: Captain, Engineers (3/3/53)

Ryan

Was George Thomas a Major in the US Army? If so, does this mean he would have been a top 5 Confederate General had he gone South, ranking Beauregard's Captaincy?

 

[James N.]

Was George Thomas a Major in the US Army? If so, does this mean he would have been a top 5 Confederate General had he gone South, ranking Beauregard's Captaincy?

Thomas was not only a major but a major in the same regiment, the 2d U.S. Cavalry, in which Lee was lieutenant colonel. Beauregard by the time of the war was very briefly Superintendent of West Point (as also had been Lee) so would've no doubt continued to outrank Thomas.