Stuart Was JEB Stuart Overrated?

[Borderruffian]

I don't remember Brother. My Aunt Grace took me into the adult section of library, matter of fact that was the first adult history book I read but can J.E.B. was my hero till stated learning family history.

 

[jackt62]

Unfortunately, I think Killer Angels is still more influential on the general public than Plenty of Blame to Go Around and One Continous Fight.

Right, but I'll take the Wittenberg books over Killer Angels any day.

 

[121st PA Vols]

Right, but I'll take the Wittenberg books over Killer Angels any day.

Absolutely. We had a book burning years ago by some of us guides (no names!) where top of the heap was ...... ...... you guessed it. We saved just enough alcohol to light the fire. It was great fun and we avoided arrest. Most of us were ex-military who knew how to destroy things and prevent the famous hilltop from burning down.
Point being, who needs fiction when you can know the real deal by those that were there or those that researched those that were there thanks to Mr. Wittenberg et al.

 

[Jamieva]

I was watching a Youtube video with Timothy Smith a few weeks ago about another general and he summed it up well "every CW general has good days and bad days". Did Stuart have some bad days? Sure. But he had more good ones than bad ones.

One negative I don't think anyone mentioned is he did not give accurate intelligence to DH Hill as to what he would be facing at South Mountain, and it strongly influenced the disposition of Hill's forces. That's in Hartwig's first book of his Antietam study.

But overall is he over rated? No.

 

[bamaman]

Well, he wore beautiful hats

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Beauty" Stuart was of my first Civil War heros

As a lighthearted note here.

Thought his nickname of 'beauty' was another instance of Stuart being 'overstated', rather than 'overrated'. (Apparently he got this nickname from fellow cadets at West Point because of his lack of appeal in the looks department).

 

[Nathan Stuart]

I think his performance at Chancellorsville is overlooked.

Agree with you about his performance at Chancellorsville.

As a brief interesting aside. Stuart was very lucky to have survived Chancellorsville. During the attack he commanded on May 2, he was wearing a brand new Federal officer's blue uniform coat (presumably acquired from one of the Union headquarters overrun in the previous evening). While moving behind an advancing battle line, Stuart rode towards a nearby wood from where hundreds of soldiers were firing, under the mistaken belief these were his own men. As he approached the wood, he suddenly realized these men were Union infantry and firmly ordered them to 'cease firing', which they did, allowing him to escape, before they recommenced their fire. Jeb's quick thinking and wearing of the Union officer's uniform probably saved him from the fate that befell Jackson.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

In overview. Jeb Stuart was undoubtedly a significant leader within the command structure of the ANV over the course of the war. His input often figured prominently in Lee's thinking/planning.

Thought Stuart's role and his accomplishments militarily cannot be overlooked.

 

[bamaman]

In overview. Jeb Stuart was undoubtedly a significant leader within the command structure of the ANV over the course of the war. His input often figured prominently in Lee's thinking/planning.

Thought Stuart's role and his accomplishments militarily cannot be overlooked.

Has anyone else seen Santa Fe Trail? It's about Stuart and John Brown with Errol Flynn as Jeb. Raymond Massey as John Brown

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Has anyone else seen Santa Fe Trail? It's about Stuart and John Brown with Errol Flynn as Jeb. Raymond Massey as John Brown

Don't recall ever seeing any movie/film where I thought JEB Stuart was accurately portrayed (at least, as I conceived him to be).

 

[JeffBrooks]

Point being, who needs fiction when you can know the real deal by those that were there or those that researched those that were there thanks to Mr. Wittenberg et al.

As a novelist, I cannot help but be somewhat offended... and to point out that your sentence should have ended with a question mark rather than a period.

 

[archieclement]

Just curious but if asserting Union Cavalry was poorly organized and inadequately trained. Shouldn't then Stuart be given some credit in making his better organized and better trained?

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Just curious but if asserting Union Cavalry was poorly organized and inadequately trained. Shouldn't then Stuart be given some credit in making his better organized and better trained?

Agree - believe Stuart also became a very good instructor of cavalrymen.

 

[JeffBrooks]

Just curious but if asserting Union Cavalry was poorly organized and inadequately trained. Shouldn't then Stuart be given some credit in making his better organized and better trained?

When it came to discipline, my understanding is that Hampton was better than Stuart.

 

[Jamieva]

In light of comments made during this week's Zoom presentation (and in the spirit of some of Major Bill's conversation starters), I'm going ask a deliberately provocative question: is J.E.B. Stuart overrated?

Consider:

1. Throughout 1862, his period of greatest fame, he faced Union cavalry that was poorly organized and inadequately trained. In other words, he got famous by running roughshod over inferior opposition.
2. Probably his most famous feats were his two rides around McClellan. Operations in which he destroyed little and avoided fighting; he simply rode in a circle to gather information. Something that could have - and perhaps should have - been accomplished by a small number of scouts - possibly operating individually - rather than by the head of the ANV's cavalry division risking the best horseflesh in the army. Meanwhile, these feats of daring stroked Stuart's ego and gave him an outsized reputation.
3. He might be to blame for losing Special Orders 191 (and possibly other sensitive documents), then lying to cover it up.
4. Placed in command of a corps at Chancellorsville after Jackson's fatal wounding, Stuart showed himself aggressive to fault, launching headlong attacks resulting in unsustainable Confederate casualties.
5. From Brandy Station onward, Stuart basically never fought his Union counterparts to anything better than a draw, with one exception I'll mention below.
6. He let personal grudges - some over petty matters - dictate his decisions such as his disposition of cavalry brigades during the Gettysburg Campaign.
7. While there was Plenty Of Blame To Go Around and certain justification, Stuart's actions during the Gettysburg Campaign arguably cost the Confederates the battle.
8. His status in memory has much to do with his martyrdom and him looking and acting the part of a dashing Virginia cavalier.

I think Stuart's actual finest moment was Buckland Mills, where he correctly assessed Custer and Kilpatrick as Union cavalry generals even more vain and aggressive than Stuart himself and used that recognition to lure them into a trap...which didn't complete close.

More time to think about these points.

#2 He couldn't go back the way he came in the first ride around McClellan and he did more than "destroyed little" but that is nit picking. His mission was to find out where the right flank of the Army of the Potomac was and report back. That was his mission and that is what he accomplished. The glorification of that ride is done by the newspapers and in the post war period.

#4 He had to be aggressive. When he takes command early on May 3, his corps and the rest of the army of the ANV are still seperated, and you could easily drive a wedge between them and ruin what Jackson had accomplished. There was no flank for him to attack as Reynolds had secured the Union right. Also 2 of his 3 divisions are being led by commanders new to that level of responsibility - Colston and Rodes, and AP Hill is wounded. It's much more an accomplishment for a commander who has never led infantry before than you give him credit for. Now big picture long term those casualties are a detrement, but in the moment for what was needed to be done he excelled.

 

[Borderruffian]

As a lighthearted note here.

Thought his nickname of 'beauty' was another instance of Stuart being 'overstated', rather than 'overrated'. (Apparently he got this nickname from fellow cadets at West Point because of his lack of appeal in the looks department).

I don't think of as him being overrated. I think of it referring to his appearance, the uniforms, plum in his hat (yes I know others wore plum's) his hair while he maintained almost religiously. IMHO Stuart was consciously trying to portray the beauideal of the " Southern Cavalier" and did it quiet well.If it started as a derisive moniker it's only because that's what military men do, often out jealousy or bordem.it in no way effects his ability or performance.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

His West Point classmates called Stuart Beauty because he had a very weak chin resulting from a severe underbite. It was a facetious nickname. He grew a thick bushy beard to cover up that very weak chin and severe underbite.

 

[Borderruffian]

His West Point classmates called Stuart Beauty because he had a very weak chin resulting from a severe underbite. It was a facetious nickname. He grew a thick bushy beard to cover up that very weak chin and severe underbite.

I probably read that at some point, but didn't retain it so I stand corrected. Thank you sir.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

When I started this thread I forgot this book was coming out:

Booknotes: J.E.B. Stuart

Non-fiction Civil War book reviews, commentary, publishing news, author interviews, and profiles

cwba.blogspot.com

 

[rpkennedy]

It's a valid question to ask. There's nothing wrong with a potential reassessment. That said, I would argue that Stuart is not overrated. Hew as probably the best pure cavalry commander that the war produced, even if his career had some hiccups. I don't particularly place a ton of blame on him for what happened during the pre-battle Gettysburg Campaign. He was in a no-win situation whether he continued on or turned back because, in either case, he wasn't going to be in a position to do his job. And his performance during the retreat was exceptional. Not unlike Stonewall Jackson, Stuart died during the war and was not around when the Confederacy was on its last legs and so his reputation isn't tainted by that fall. He'll always be the subject of late war what-if scenarios.

Ryan