Vicksburg Photos

Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#1
I am posting two views of an old photo from an pamphlet on Vicksburg, which I believe shows the Hall's Ferry Road and some Confederate earthworks. I posted two views one shows the road ( on the right) better than the other one. The other one shows more clearly the cannon and Tablet on the left side of the photo. The third is an old post card showing a Confederate trench on Iowa Ave. in the former park property. My question to Alan Polk and anyone else who might know, are these earthworks still there, just covered up by weeds and brush? Is the gun and tablet the actual Salient Work on Hall's Ferry road? Can the trench on Iowa Ave. still be seen? Alan, would Parker Hills know about this? Thanks, Nathanb1, for your help in uploading and posting these photos!! Vicksburger

P1050191.JPG


P1050193.JPG


P1050194.JPG
 

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)

mt155

First Sergeant
Civil War Photo Contest
Annual Winner
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,193
Location
Clear Lake, Texas
#2
During the CWPT conference last week ,centered around the Vicksburg Campaign, we were told by more than one guide that Grant had most of the "works" filled in while he constructed newer compact defences that could be defended with less men while he moved on. That way there would be no works for the rebs if they tried to retake the city. Inside the park the CCC reconstructed the redoubts, trenches and other works during the 30's so what you see today are not original. There are a FEW trenches that are thought to be "real".
 

Nathanb1

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Retired Moderator
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
32,917
Location
Smack dab in the heart of Texas
#3
I am posting two views of an old photo from an pamphlet on Vicksburg, which I believe shows the Hall's Ferry Road and some Confederate earthworks. I posted two views one shows the road ( on the right) better than the other one. The other one shows more clearly the cannon and Tablet on the left side of the photo. The third is an old post card showing a Confederate trench on Iowa Ave. in the former park property. My question to Alan Polk and anyone else who might know, are these earthworks still there, just covered up by weeds and brush? Is the gun and tablet the actual Salient Work on Hall's Ferry road? Can the trench on Iowa Ave. still be seen? Alan, would Parker Hills know about this? Thanks, Nathanb1, for your help in uploading and posting these photos!! Vicksburger
Looks like it was well worth it! Cool!
 

alan polk

Sergeant Major
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
2,307
#4
I am posting two views of an old photo from an pamphlet on Vicksburg, which I believe shows the Hall's Ferry Road and some Confederate earthworks. I posted two views one shows the road ( on the right) better than the other one. The other one shows more clearly the cannon and Tablet on the left side of the photo. The third is an old post card showing a Confederate trench on Iowa Ave. in the former park property. My question to Alan Polk and anyone else who might know, are these earthworks still there, just covered up by weeds and brush? Is the gun and tablet the actual Salient Work on Hall's Ferry road? Can the trench on Iowa Ave. still be seen? Alan, would Parker Hills know about this? Thanks, Nathanb1, for your help in uploading and posting these photos!! Vicksburger
Vicksburger,

Those are great pictures. I don't know the answers to your questions. I will try and insert this thread into an email to Parker tomorrow. Since he's not a member here I don't know if he can access the pictures or not. Nonetheless, I will try and report to you whenever I get a reply from him.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
5,896
Location
Transplanted Texan
#5
Thanks to Nathanb (who is always a help), and Vicksburger for the really cool pictures (post some more hint,hint). I too heard that the CCC did alot in the 30's to make the sites more accessible to visitors. I remember wandering around the park and stopping by a sign that said here were confederate trenches but for the life of me I couldn't see anything that looked like a trench. I believe like Nathanb that most,if not all, the defensive works have been filled in long ago (I mean, Taco Bell must have a parking lot)
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#6
Thanks to Nathanb (who is always a help), and Vicksburger for the really cool pictures (post some more hint,hint). I too heard that the CCC did alot in the 30's to make the sites more accessible to visitors. I remember wandering around the park and stopping by a sign that said here were confederate trenches but for the life of me I couldn't see anything that looked like a trench. I believe like Nathanb that most,if not all, the defensive works have been filled in long ago (I mean, Taco Bell must have a parking lot)
The strange thing to me is that considering the picture of the Confederate trench, gun and tablet, assuming that it is some of the fortifications on the Hall's Ferry Road, it would seem to have disappeared. I am up here in Illinois and can't easily walk around the ground, but one of the descendants of the 43rd Tennessee told me in a email there isn't anything to see except a marker for the 56th and 57th Georgia line, and 43rd Tennessee line, and one for Cummings Brigade. Parker Hills said there are some union approach trenches, but they are overgrown in weeds, etc, and perhaps can't be seen except during the winter season. But this s a "Confederate" trench. Also, it appears to me the Salient Work was on the LEFT of the Hall's Ferry Road, and these works appear to be on the RIGHT side of Hall's Ferry Road. Anyway, check back in awhile because Alan Polk and Parker Hills should be able to shed some light on this. I like your avatar, Gen. Pemberton. Have you read Warren Grabau's book "98 Days" on the Vicksburg campaign? It really makes a compelling argument that Pemberton was not incompetent. It also has great maps of a lot of the fortifications. Funny thing is Pemberton probably sacrificed more than any other Confederate general, threw away his family, fortune and U. S. Army career for the Confederacy, and gets trashed by most historians.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#7
Vicksburger,

Those are great pictures. I don't know the answers to your questions. I will try and insert this thread into an email to Parker tomorrow. Since he's not a member here I don't know if he can access the pictures or not. Nonetheless, I will try and report to you whenever I get a reply from him.
Alan: No hurry on that, whenever Gen.Hills can take a look. It appears to me that these fortifications are on the Right of Hall's Ferry road, and all the literature I see says the Salient Work was on the Left of Hall's ferry road. Maybe these were additional works on the other side of the road. Terry Winschell said in an email a few years ago, that the Salient work was no longer extant. Maybe the trenches in the picture were supporting trenches or covered ways. Vicksburger
 

rickvox79

First Sergeant
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
1,340
Location
Pace, FL
#9
Awesome thanks for the photos. It's nice to see older photos of the park that are closer to the time when it all took place.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#10
During the CWPT conference last week ,centered around the Vicksburg Campaign, we were told by more than one guide that Grant had most of the "works" filled in while he constructed newer compact defences that could be defended with less men while he moved on. That way there would be no works for the rebs if they tried to retake the city. Inside the park the CCC reconstructed the redoubts, trenches and other works during the 30's so what you see today are not original. There are a FEW trenches that are thought to be "real".
If you search under "Vicksburg Question" you will find a post I did Dec.31, 2012, which has some information I learned from Terry Winschell and Ed Bearss, which bears on your information from the Tour Guide. I was told unless you get it from Terry Winschell, don't assume it is correct. Vicksburger
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
545
#11
Vicksburger, when you say "right" side or "left" side of Halls Ferry Road what direction are you referring to?

right=east?
left=west?

I believe this may be the location of the Iowa Ave. picture. It is where the Virginia monument is located.

iowa-ave01.jpg
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#12
Vicksburger, when you say "right" side or "left" side of Halls Ferry Road what direction are you referring to?

right=east?
left=west?

I believe this may be the location of the Iowa Ave. picture. It is where the Virginia monument is located.

View attachment 15936
1stMS-Arty: Looks like you may have something there. I'm seeing the trench for sure, just trying to orient myself with the two pictures. But I bet you've identified it. Wow, thanks so much, now that I know it is where the Virginia monument, I can go to google Earth or wikimapia and look further. Thanks, great find!
About the other picture: I asked one of the park Rangers about this picture, which is in the Vicksburg for the Tourist book, published in the 1920's-1930's for Illinois Central RR passengers, and also in other books such as Indiana at Vicksburg published in 1911. The park Ranger said from the orientation of the city in the background, it is the Hall's Ferry road. I'm assuming you are looking north or back towards town. The old maps put the Georgia Salient Work (mostly) on the right of the Hall' Ferry road ( i.e. looking from the Union side)...that is ... looking from the Confederate side i.e. looking south, it would be on the left of Hall's Ferry Road. And the original big Confederate position tablet ( which may not physically exist)we know read "Salient Work on Left of Hall's Ferry Road"(i.e. looking from the Confederate view, would be on the left.) What is in the picture could be what was left, in 1902 when the park was established, of a supporting work on the OTHER side of the Hall's Ferry Road, i.e. on the left of the picture, or on the right from the Confederate perspective. Hope I am not being too obscure here. The big mystery is what the heck happened to that gun, tablet and earthwork. But, who knows, perhaps the Park Ranger was wrong, maybe it some other road than Hall's Ferry?
But that observation and that picture you have on Iowa Avenue is absolutely wonderful, I am so glad they did not level it and it can still be seen. Can't wait to get back to Vicksburg now to inspect the ground. Great work, 1stMS-Arty!! Vicksburger
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
545
#13
I think this may be the location on Hall's Ferry Rd. It is maybe a couple of hundred yards south of Confederate Ave. bridge over Hall's Ferry Rd. There is a marker visible on Google street view.

I'm going to be in Vicksburg July 3-5 so I'll check it out while I'm there.

hallsferry01.jpg
 

James N.

Lt. Colonel
Forum Host
Civil War Photo Contest
Annual Winner
Featured Book Reviewer
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
10,535
Location
East Texas
#14
I think this may be the location on Hall's Ferry Rd. It is maybe a couple of hundred yards south of Confederate Ave. bridge over Hall's Ferry Rd. There is a marker visible on Google street view.

I'm going to be in Vicksburg July 3-5 so I'll check it out while I'm there.
1stMS-Arty, thank you for your post and detective work, and

Welcome to the Forum!
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#15
I think this may be the location on Hall's Ferry Rd. It is maybe a couple of hundred yards south of Confederate Ave. bridge over Hall's Ferry Rd. There is a marker visible on Google street view.

I'm going to be in Vicksburg July 3-5 so I'll check it out while I'm there.

View attachment 16021
1stMS-Arty: I just now saw your photo, by "marker" in the photo, do you mean it is the tablet and gun in the old picture I posted? Where exactly is your photo, I mean where along the Halls Ferry Road? Vicksburger
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
545
#16
1stMS-Arty: I just now saw your photo, by "marker" in the photo, do you mean it is the tablet and gun in the old picture I posted? Where exactly is your photo, I mean where along the Halls Ferry Road? Vicksburger
I don't think it is the exact same tablet but I think it is the same area.

You can see from the attached maps that the Hall's Ferry Rd. runs right through the Confederate lines so there are actually works on both sides of the road. Your old photo may be on the right or left side of the road. Not real sure.

hallsferry07.jpg
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#18
I just noticed another maker in the picture.
View attachment 16083
I think you are probably right it is the same area. In the old picture, you can see a road behind the marker you point out. However, that road may have disappeared over time. It would be interesting if you can walk behind the trees and brush when you visit Vicksburg in July, to see if there is topography similar to what is shown in the old picture. It would appear that the earthwork with the cannon and plaque has been leveled at some point. Although, it is possible that it is obscured by the present day trees and brush.
If you google "43rd Tennessee" it will take you to a website (made by descendants of the 43rd Tennessee, who were helping out the Georgia regiments at the Salient Work), then click on "Vicksburg pictures no.1" and scroll through the pictures, and you will see some pictures from when the descendants of these Tennesseans visited Vicksburg in 2008 I think and tried to find out where the Salient Work was located. Also, there are pictures on CivilWarAlbum, click on Vicksburg campaign, then click on Hall's Ferry road, there are neat pictures. One says "Confederate earthworks" but the picture doesn't show very much, only vegetation really. There is a medium size plaque for Cummings Brigade which plaque was where the Salient Work was located (supposedly).
But you have done a great service for me and those of us interested in these earthworks. If you get any good pictures from your visit in July, please post them on here.
Parker Hills said that he will typically take a tour group and park on John Allen Street, and walk north, and there are remnants of trenches in the underbrush. So, if you are so inclined you might do likewise.

Last year I was able to visit Vicksburg, and I climbed down in the ravine across the Baldwin Ferry Road from the 2nd Texas Lunette, and found a marker for the start of A.J. Smith's approach to the Lunette. It was rough walking but I got some pictures.

I think that there is a very strong possibility that your identification of the Confederate trench on Iowa Avenue is correct. If you get a chance to walk it, you can probably confirm that. Vicksburger
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
976
Location
Saint Joseph
#20
Above are some pictures of some markers and preserved earthworks at Vicksburg NMP, taken in the summer of 2012. First is the marker of the beginning of A.J.Smith's left approach in the ravine across the park road (old Baldwin's Ferry Road) from Second Texas Lunette (now the Jewish Cemetery). This is seldom seen unless you climb down the ravine like I did. This is the ravine that Benton and Burbridge's brigades attacked from on May 22,1863, I think. Next two are really neat Yankee trenches along the graveyard road approach to the Stockade Redan. Next are earthworks on the Great Redoubt. Next is a small work manned by one of the Alabama regiments, ( I think the 30th Alabama ) between the R.R. Redoubt and Fort Garrott. Next is Fort Garrott. Last is an inadvertant repeat of the first photo. Vicksburger
 

Similar threads




(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
Top