USS CONSTELLATION guns

[63rdOVI]

I've been reading up on the Civil War sloop of war USS CONSTELLATION, launched in 1854 and preserved in Baltimore. (No, it's not the original 1797 frigate, which recent research shows was broken up during the construction of the 1854 sloop but some of whose wood was used in the 1854 sloop.)

I note that her guns included some heavy Parrott rifles: a 20-pounder in the stern and a 30-pounder in the bow. However, her main armament consisted of sixteen 8-inch shell guns. I found that these were based on the Paixhans shell guns developed for the French navy.

As of yet, I've not been able to find a photograph of any of the U.S. weapons, although I've found some written information about them.

Anybody have a photograph or illustration of the U.S. guns?

 

[unicornforge]

I used to live and work nearby and could see the ship from our house, and I purchased a lifetime pass/coin many years ago. Last time I visited it, most of the guns were replaced with plastic replicas, and over time most of the wood has been replaced during its many many repairs and restorations. Still it was a very nice museum ship to visit. ..... As a side note, I was short enough to be able to walk on the below decks without having to duck my head. .... Watch your head folks.

 

[63rdOVI]

I used to live and work nearby and could see the ship from our house, and I purchased a lifetime pass/coin many years ago. Last time I visited it, most of the guns were replaced with plastic replicas, and over time most of the wood has been replaced during its many many repairs and restorations. Still it was a very nice museum ship to visit. ..... As a side note, I was short enough to be able to walk on the below decks without having to duck my head. .... Watch your head folks.

Yeah, I was last aboard many years before the last restoration and it was in a sad shape. I'm afraid wood replacement is a necessary evil; they do the same for the CONSTITUTION in Boston when needed.

I also think most of the guns on CONSTITUTION and maybe even HMS VICTORY are plastic. No need to keep thousands of pounds of expensive historic artillery on board where it can weigh the ship down and stress the timbers.

 

[unicornforge]

..... Whenever I visited or thought about the USS CONSTELLATION, I wondered....... if you kept all the wood that was taken off of the ship over the years, then assembled all those bits back together..... which is the original ship, the one in the harbor, or the one you assembled from all the bits that were saved. . .... Not kidding, I spent a lot of time wondering about it.

 

[USS ALASKA]

@63rdOVI

"...The reactions of the visitors were generally of an awed nature, though when shown the enormous, 12-inch Paixhan gun, one of the group "observed that, if he were put inside of it, and fired off, it would take him to Santa Fe in a minute!"

https://thehillishome.com/2015/07/lost-capitol-hill-the-teseque-pueblos-visit-to-the-navy-yard/

http://www.marinersmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/paixhans-canon-banner.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/photos/st/8...7BE6E9EA3C/zzzz French Paixhans Shell Gun.JPG

Best I can come up with sir.

HTH,
USS ALASKA

 

[63rdOVI]

@63rdOVI

View attachment 171976

"...The reactions of the visitors were generally of an awed nature, though when shown the enormous, 12-inch Paixhan gun, one of the group "observed that, if he were put inside of it, and fired off, it would take him to Santa Fe in a minute!"

https://thehillishome.com/2015/07/lost-capitol-hill-the-teseque-pueblos-visit-to-the-navy-yard/

View attachment 171977

http://www.marinersmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/paixhans-canon-banner.jpg

View attachment 171978

http://www.fototime.com/photos/st/8E8B6F27F13F4E3BAA5DA37BE6E9EA3C/zzzz French Paixhans Shell Gun.JPG

Best I can come up with sir.

HTH,
USS ALASKA

Thank you, sir!

 

[CowCavalry]

When I was a teenager, there was an old navy vet that lived on the corner of the block who I became friends with, he had served two stints with the US navy, one I believe in around 1929, the second during WW2. He told me the Constellation was used for training and that he had trained on it, he had a photo of the entire class including himself standing on the rigging etc. Somewhere I have a coin from him that was made from some of the copper off the ship during one of its restorations.

 

[Jimklag]

View attachment 171367
I've been reading up on the Civil War sloop of war USS CONSTELLATION, launched in 1854 and preserved in Baltimore. (No, it's not the original 1797 frigate, which recent research shows was broken up during the construction of the 1854 sloop but some of whose wood was used in the 1854 sloop.)

I note that her guns included some heavy Parrott rifles: a 20-pounder in the stern and a 30-pounder in the bow. However, her main armament consisted of sixteen 8-inch shell guns. I found that these were based on the Paixhans shell guns developed for the French navy.

As of yet, I've not been able to find a photograph of any of the U.S. weapons, although I've found some written information about them.

Anybody have a photograph or illustration of the U.S. guns?

20 pounder naval Parrot rifle.

30 pounder parrot fieldpiece

 

[Saphroneth]

The smoothbore shell gun was pretty much the typical gun in this period (mid 1850s) - not a high velocity weapon, but one hurling large projectiles slowly. The intent was to try and penetrate the enemy sidewall and then burst inside, and to achieve this low muzzle velocities were deliberately aimed for. British guns of the time (the 8" 56cwt shell gun for example) used about a 5lb powder charge, while the same calibre of high velocity gun used up to 20lbs powder charge.

They also had solid shot projectiles, but they were optimized for shell.

 

[Saphroneth]

Interestingly, the battle that really proved the concept was in the late 1830s during a French war against Mexico. (Yes, that appears to have been a common thing for the French to do, though this one was the Pastry War.) The bombardment and capture of San Jose de Ulua also saw an early appearance of steam tugs used to position sail warships.

It's one of those technologies which was adopted in gradual steps by Britain and France, with the two pretty much matching one another in adoption rate one way or another.

 

[Michael W.]

I MUST get out to Baltimore to see this ship!!

 

[kholland]

As a side note, I was short enough to be able to walk on the below decks without having to duck my head. .... Watch your head folks.

Interesting insight. I saw this thread and instantly thought of my tour some years back. Those guys belowdecks must have been very short or duck-walked! I can`t remember if the 2d deck had as low a ceiling as the 3d but that deck was LOW.

 

[unicornforge]

Interesting insight. I saw this thread and instantly thought of my tour some years back. Those guys belowdecks must have been very short or duck-walked! I can`t remember if the 2d deck had as low a ceiling as the 3d but that deck was LOW.

If I remember correctly, Black Beard was 5 ft 8 inches tall and considered so tall as to be scary..... especially when he added slow-matches to his beard.

 

[63rdOVI]

20 pounder naval Parrot rifle.
View attachment 172438

30 pounder parrot fieldpiece
View attachment 172439

Thank you! I may be wrong, but that 20-pounder Parrott may actually be on the CONSTELLATION. It looks like the Inner Harbor at Baltimore.

 

[63rdOVI]

The smoothbore shell gun was pretty much the typical gun in this period (mid 1850s) - not a high velocity weapon, but one hurling large projectiles slowly. The intent was to try and penetrate the enemy sidewall and then burst inside, and to achieve this low muzzle velocities were deliberately aimed for. British guns of the time (the 8" 56cwt shell gun for example) used about a 5lb powder charge, while the same calibre of high velocity gun used up to 20lbs powder charge.

They also had solid shot projectiles, but they were optimized for shell.

Sounds like the basic premise behind the .45 ACP/Auto Rim pistol round: large heavy slugs at low to medium low velocity which allows excellent penetration and heavy damage.

 

[Carronade]

Thank you! I may be wrong, but that 20-pounder Parrott may actually be on the CONSTELLATION. It looks like the Inner Harbor at Baltimore.

It's been years since I was there, but I believe you are correct.

 

[Claude Bauer]

View attachment 171367
I've been reading up on the Civil War sloop of war USS CONSTELLATION, launched in 1854 and preserved in Baltimore. (No, it's not the original 1797 frigate, which recent research shows was broken up during the construction of the 1854 sloop but some of whose wood was used in the 1854 sloop.)

I note that her guns included some heavy Parrott rifles: a 20-pounder in the stern and a 30-pounder in the bow. However, her main armament consisted of sixteen 8-inch shell guns. I found that these were based on the Paixhans shell guns developed for the French navy.

As of yet, I've not been able to find a photograph of any of the U.S. weapons, although I've found some written information about them.

Anybody have a photograph or illustration of the U.S. guns?

I have the honor and pleasure of volunteering on the USS Constellation the last Sat. of every month, April – Oct. with the Ships Company, a group of reenactors they allow to take over the Ship for a day for historical interpretation, rain or shine. I like to think we bring the Ship to life--it's a great vessel to visit at any time, but having a crew on board adds another dimension to the experience.

We portray Civil War-era Marines and Sailors and wear authentic reproduction period uniforms. We fire that 20 pounder in the pictures above for the visitors, conduct drills on the great guns (each one took 15 men and boy to operate and the Marines had their own), hold cutlass and musket demos, and also demonstrate the operation of the Ship's working capstan.

Throughout the day, we play fife and drum music for the visitors, both on the Ship and on the pier. Historically, there was one Marine fifer and one drummer on the Ship, but we often have others join us.

Some of the Sailors have been doing this for more than 20 years and are a wealth of knowledge about the Ship and its operation. At least one of our members has published a book about the Constellation. So if you're planning a visit, please try to come on the last Sat. of the month, April – Oct!

Ships Company - 2013

Marines and Sailors firing the Parrott rifle.

One Marine fifer and one drummer served on the Ship as musicians.

 

[63rdOVI]

I have the honor and pleasure of volunteering on the USS Constellation the last Sat. of every month, April – Oct. with the Ships Company, a group of reenactors they allow to take over the Ship for a day for historical interpretation, rain or shine. I like to think we bring the Ship to life--it's a great vessel to visit at any time, but having a crew on board adds another dimension to the experience.

We portray Civil War-era Marines and Sailors and wear authentic reproduction period uniforms. We fire that 20 pounder in the pictures above for the visitors, conduct drills on the great guns (each one took 15 men and boy to operate and the Marines had their own), hold cutlass and musket demos, and also demonstrate the operation of the Ship's working capstan.

Throughout the day, we play fife and drum music for the visitors, both on the Ship and on the pier. Historically, there was one Marine fifer and one drummer on the Ship, but we often have others join us.

Some of the Sailors have been doing this for more than 20 years and are a wealth of knowledge about the Ship and its operation. Several have published books about the Constellation. So if you're planning a visit, please try to come on the last Sat. of the month, April – Oct!

View attachment 172484 Ships Company - 2013

View attachment 172485
Marines and Sailors firing the Parrott rifle.


View attachment 172493
One Marine fifer and one drummer served on the Ship as musicians.

Excellent! Glad to see such a great crew manning the ship and bringing history to life.

And so the 20-pounder Parrott pictured several posts above is indeed on the CONSTELLATION.

 

[Saphroneth]

Sounds like the basic premise behind the .45 ACP/Auto Rim pistol round: large heavy slugs at low to medium low velocity which allows excellent penetration and heavy damage.

Not really - penetration wasn't a concern, as armoured warships per se didn't exist yet (and ships with heavy wooden sidewalls that might endure the impact, such as a ship-of-the-line, are not the business of a sloop to engage...). The intent of the shell's low velocity is to avoid overpenetration.
The closer analogy to what you're thinking of is the true Dahlgren guns of the Civil War period, and unfortunately this is an inferior way to penetrate armour - experiments in Britain at the time confirmed that armour penetration could be strongly predicted by the force per unit circumference of the round, and for that you need a round as small as possible for a given momentum (and higher velocity is extremely important, the force goes as the square of the velocity).

In British service, the way it was handled for ships that might fight liners was that they carried both heavy shell guns (such as 8" guns) and armaments of long guns (such as the 6.4" 32-pounder or the 8" 68-pounder). The long guns would have more penetration when firing shot.


Though an interesting aside is that US fuze times for shells were surprisingly long - this wasn't such a problem with the slow shells which were intended to avoid overpenetration, but for the bigger and higher-charge Dalgren guns of the civil war period this could mean shellfire functioned as inferior solid shot against targets within a few hundred yards.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

I am glad to see the restored USS Constellation looking so nice and well attended to! When I was young boy, and enthralled with our country's rich history, I saved my money and sent for one of the USS Constellation Commemorative Copper Coins made from the copper nails which had been removed from the ship during reconstruction and restoration. This was in the late 1950's, and included with the coin was a pamphlet with the history of the ship and an artist's rendering of it under way in full sail. When I received the coin, it became one of my most prized possessions and I really, really, wanted to see that ship! About a year or so later my Dad used his meager vacation time from the factory he worked in to take me to see it. It was a long trip of hundreds of miles, and was also the biggest disappointment of my young life at that time! It took us quite a while driving around the Beltway, two times as a matter of fact, just to figure out the proper exit, and then again around the Baltimore harbor just to find the ship. I remember Dad saying "It shouldn't be too hard to spot, just look for tall masts!" We finally found it, and as we drove up to it, moored to a dock, our jaws dropped open, for there sat a dismasted hulk rotting away in the water, with black tar over a large part of it! There was no one around to even talk to about it, so we sat there for a few minutes looking at it, still in disbelief, and then began the long trip back home. Some 60 years later, whenever I hear the name "USS Constellation", that vision is the first thing that pops into my mind, every time!
J.