Union EM's Buckle

[Karl S.]

Hello,

I realize this is probably one the most common CW relics around, and the main thing I know about these things is there's many fakes. opinions welcome..thanks

 

[redbob]

Without taking anything away from your belt plate ,usually the fakes entail CSA or higher end buckles; I believe that yours is a nice original belt plate.

 

[zburkett]

I think I have to agree with redbob. The green residue at the base of the belt hooks looks like it was worn and sweated on for a long time. It is possible that this is a really good reproduction, or even new old stock, from the centennial that a reenactor campaigned really hard. In any case nice buckle.

 

[Karl S.]

Thank you guys. I wanted to surprise my wife with it. Her Great Grandfather was a member of the 88th PA Volunteers.

 

[zburkett]

Great gift. Merry Christmas.

 

[Billw12280]

This appears to be an 1839 model buckle with arrow hooks but whether original or a reproduction is uncertain. Can you post pictures of the buckle from the side (laying on its face)? The reason I ask is that from one of your pictures it appears that the solder back is overfilled. I need a better view of the prongs as well, the arrow hook bevel seems off and the tongue looks too thin to me.
I always recommend Harry Ridgeways site for a free reference guide, you can access it here
http://www.relicman.com/plates/zLibraryPlate.390.Fed.Oval.LargeSizeVariants.htm
And fakes here
http://www.relicman.com/fakes/zfakeFed475to534USOval.htm

 

[Karl S.]

This appears to be an 1839 model buckle with arrow hooks but whether original or a reproduction is uncertain. Can you post pictures of the buckle from the side (laying on its face)? The reason I ask is that from one of your pictures it appears that the solder back is overfilled. I need a better view of the prongs as well, the arrow hook bevel seems off and the tongue looks too thin to me.
I always recommend Harry Ridgeways site for a free reference guide, you can access it here
http://www.relicman.com/plates/zLibraryPlate.390.Fed.Oval.LargeSizeVariants.htm
And fakes here
http://www.relicman.com/fakes/zfakeFed475to534USOval.htm

Hi Bill,
I won't have it in hand until next week.

 

[Package4]

I believe it to be a reenactment piece due to the thin prong and the lead looks to be a little overfilled for the period. The verdigris doesn't take very long to develop, in fact I have a basement that turns my reenactment buckles, where the leather attaches green, over the winter.

Where did you buy it and is there a return policy? Post more pictures when you receive and it will be easier to make a more definitive conclusion. The prong should be thicker and more rounded with a slight upward turn 3/4s of the way to the end.

I have seen arrow hooks beveled that way on originals and I have seen (rarely) a thin prong, but they almost always have the upward bend.

 

[mofederal]

I thought it might be a new old stock plate, later filled in with lead. I had one of those once. I like it, real or not @Karl S.

 

[Karl S.]

I believe it to be a reenactment piece due to the thin prong and the lead looks to be a little overfilled for the period. The verdigris doesn't take very long to develop, in fact I have a basement that turns my reenactment buckles, where the leather attaches green, over the winter.

Where did you buy it and is there a return policy? Post more pictures when you receive and it will be easier to make a more definitive conclusion. The prong should be thicker and more rounded with a slight upward turn 3/4s of the way to the end.

I have seen arrow hooks beveled that way on originals and I have seen (rarely) a thin prong, but they almost always have the upward bend.

Thanks, Yes there's a return option, I'll post some better images next week.

 

[zburkett]

I don't know what you paid but that is a really nice buckle.

 

[James N.]

Hello,

I realize this is probably one the most common CW relics around, and the main thing I know about these things is there's many fakes. opinions welcome..thanks

Hi, Karl; since there for some reason seems to be a question, you can compare it with these two of mine I have no doubts
about: https://civilwartalk.com/threads/regulation-union-belt-and-cartridge-box-plates.81279/

 

[JOHN42768]

Looks all good, but no expert. Congrats

 

[Karl S.]

Hi, Karl; since there for some reason seems to be a question, you can compare it with these two of mine I have no doubts
about: https://civilwartalk.com/threads/regulation-union-belt-and-cartridge-box-plates.81279/

View attachment 169257

Hi James,
thanks for the link to your post, that was very helpful. The arrowhead example looks very close to mine from the angle of the photos.

 

[major bill]

These belt buckle are great for display. There is something special about a piece of gear worn by a soldier.

 

[Package4]

To illustrate what I mean by a thicker prong please take a look at the following; all three on belts are I'd and original, in fact the top piece belonged to Michael Calligan 59th NY killed close to the Angle during Pickett's Charge. The buckle has his name calligraphied on the rear, his initials and regiment carved into the capbox and belt. Unfortunately it was removed from him prematurely and he lies in the National Cemetery in an unmarked grave. The bottom piece, much like the one in the OP is a reproduction. Also the hooks and prongs should be a more brass than copper color. I would rather identify a reproduction now during the return period than find out past that time.

 

[Karl S.]

To illustrate what I mean by a thicker prong please take a look at the following; all three on belts are I'd and original, in fact the top piece belonged to Michael Calligan 59th NY killed close to the Angle during Pickett's Charge. The buckle has his name calligraphied on the rear, his initials and regiment carved into the capbox and belt. Unfortunately it was removed from him prematurely and he lies in the National Cemetery in an unmarked grave. The bottom piece, much like the one in the OP is a reproduction. Also the hooks and prongs should be a more brass than copper color. I would rather identify a reproduction now during the return period than find out past that time.View attachment 169285
View attachment 169284

Package,
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I'll really need to take a close look at my buckle when I have it.

 

[Package4]

Package,
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I'll really need to take a close look at my buckle when I have it.

No problem, it could be right, I just like to see a thicker prong with an upward bend, but even the repros are starting to have the bend. When checking my collection, I just found an early purchase, on a belt and guess what, repro. I had it boxed away for years and took it out to compare and embarrassed to say I was fooled years back, it's on an original belt, but definitely a repop.

 

[zburkett]

For me, it is so easy to fake a reproduction I always just assume that every buckle is a reproduction and that is the price I am willing to pay. At a recent auction there was a really nice Texas buckle that I did not buy because in the same auction there was a saber that I knew was not right. That said, this is a really nice buckle and if the price is right for a Bannerman then I would go for it. If the price is ridiculous then return it.

 

[Karl S.]

Thanks again all. I collect Third Reich items as a hobby, many fakes there also. SS items are highly faked, if I'm not getting a item from a veterans family or a very trusted source I'll pass on it. The same would apply to CW collectibles as most of you know.