Impressions Two Band P.60

LtRusell

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I’m slowly putting together a Florida Volunteer Coast Guard/CSCG/CS Naval impression (USNLP). While I know it sounds like a bit much I am buying in stages, doing my research. This might be redirected to another thread, but I have heard the P.60 Enfield was used sharpshooters and cavalry. I have also heard of it being called a “navy rifle”.

I have a couple questions. If you’re impression is naval is it OK to use this weapon? And why all the hate on the two band? I have seen units with a no two band policy. If it is historically accurate for my impression I plan on using it.

Thoughts?
 
There is no hate on the 2 band really, it's a safety thing in infantry formations from firing in a rear rank so most infantry units require a 3 band. 2 band is fine for cavalry impression or probably would be good for you. that said though if you are only going to have one rifle and you ever had the urge to participate in any of the big events a 3 band is more versatile.
 
That makes sense. I think I must have missed something though. Safety issue?

I have been considering the issue of what exactly to invest in. I do consider it that. Come to the conclusion that three band is it. Makes the most sense you’re right.
 
That makes sense. I think I must have missed something though. Safety issue?

I have been considering the issue of what exactly to invest in. I do consider it that. Come to the conclusion that three band is it. Makes the most sense you’re right.
The safety issue is when you are firing from the rear rank the shorter barrel is firing to close to the guy in the front rank. If you are using the 2 band you pretty much have to be in the front rank. Not a problem if you are short, you'd probably be put there anyway but if you're tall that's a problem. It's just easier and safer to have everybody have a 3 band. There were certainly a lot of 2 bands used during the war, some companies were issued them exclusively.
 
The safety issue is when you are firing from the rear rank the shorter barrel is firing to close to the guy in the front rank. If you are using the 2 band you pretty much have to be in the front rank. Not a problem if you are short, you'd probably be put there anyway but if you're tall that's a problem. It's just easier and safer to have everybody have a 3 band. There were certainly a lot of 2 bands used during the war, some companies were issued them exclusively.

so with roughly 6'3" i'd never be in the front rank and always have an extra obstacle to the enemy's bullets in front of me?
 
And you are right, the two band Enfields were preferred by Confederate scouts/skirmishers/ sharpshooters because it was shorter, lighter and easier to move through brush with and yet it was still as accurate as the longer Enfields.
 
:unsure:Indeed. I would say in my defense...
The difference between a good officer and a bad officer is that the good officer will ask if he doesn't know something and the bad officer will do it just because he is an officer.
 
Good point. I'm always willing to listen. If you don't and get input when something doesn't come off right its a valuable thing.
 
from nco.s or superiors? i'm asking because at least some of my ancestors met an early fate for asking the wrong guys :D
I was fortunate that as I progressed through the ranks in both the military and fire service, I was fortunate to have asked the right people (both above and below me) the right questions at the right times. And I can certainly understand what you are talking about.
 
You might have missed the 'slowly' at the beginning of this. I'm expending my knowledge on this between work and family. I am voraciously reading, always have. So I'm doing as I always do, taking advice from many sources. I'm glad I asked the question.
 
You might have missed the 'slowly' at the beginning of this. I'm expending my knowledge on this between work and family. I am voraciously reading, always have. So I'm doing as I always do, taking advice from many sources. I'm glad I asked the question.

there is no stupid question


... i just can't help not to mock your user-name :tongue:
 
I’m slowly putting together a Florida Volunteer Coast Guard/CSCG/CS Naval impression (USNLP). While I know it sounds like a bit much I am buying in stages, doing my research. This might be redirected to another thread, but I have heard the P.60 Enfield was used sharpshooters and cavalry. I have also heard of it being called a “navy rifle”.

I have a couple questions. If you’re impression is naval is it OK to use this weapon? And why all the hate on the two band? I have seen units with a no two band policy. If it is historically accurate for my impression I plan on using it.

Thoughts?

Technically the only British "Navy Rifle" is the P1858 Rifle, not to be confused with the "Bar-on-Band Rifle". The P1858 is brass mounted, with a rear sling swivel that is suspended from the front of the trigger guard bow. The rifle has a 33 inch barrel with a 5 groove bore with a 1:48 inch twist, as opposed to the 3 groove rifling and 1:72 inch twist of older models. The rear sight is ranged for 1,100 yards, although some late production rifles have sights ranged for 1,250 yards. The barrel of the P1858, and later models, is thicker than earlier rifles and weighs 4lbs 1oz, a full pound heavier than earlier rifles.

The P1860 and P1861 Rifles are very similar with 33 inch barrels with 5 groove rifling with a 1:48 inch twist. The rifles are iron mounted with the rear swivel suspended via a small stud behind the trigger guard. The rear sight of the P1860 is normally ranged for 1,100 yards, while the P1861 is ranged for 1,250.

There are some variations in features of these rifles, eg brass mounted P1860 rifles, due to the number of small workshops producing these for the British Volunteer Rifle Clubs and later, the Confederate military.

If I'm not mistaken the CS Navy purchased 1,000 P1858 Rifles, complete with cutlass bayonets. The CS Army also purchased P1858 Naval Rifles, but is believed to have ordered all of their P1858s (about 700 or so) with the more traditional saber style "semi-Yataghan blade" bayonet.

As with any impression your specific research will dictate if a P1858 will be appropriate, but given the low numbers of actual Navy imported arms I would not be surprised if the unit(s) you intend to portray never received them.

The "hate" directed at short rifles stems from one of two things: (a) Prohibition of all "2-band rifles" to prevent the ubiquitous "Zouave Rifles" aka Remington 1862 Contract Rifles from taking the field, and (b) reenacting units using sloppy drill that makes the use of short rifles unsafe, in their opinions, to be used in the rear rank.

Proper drill and use of correct foot placement renders the argument for part b void and null. And proper event standards will do the same for issue a.
 
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