Trying again....relationships

drut

Cadet
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Okay, I'll rephrase the question. I'm interested in the relationships some of the principal participants had prior to the war. For instance did Lee or Jackson know Grant or Sherman before the war? Were they friends? How did they feel about trying to kill each other, or killing others that were classmates at West Point? What kind of animosity or grudges were held after the war?

I've tried to find this on my own, but with little success mostly due to time constraints. Honestly, for fifty years I really didn't think about the Civil War though I grew up close to Kennesaw Mountain. I'd find bullets and canister shot in our yard which my dad took so I wouldn't lose them and he forgot where he hid them and I never saw them again. Anyway, now I can't get enough of it, as if it just occurred to me that the country split, and friends became enemies and they killed one another. So I'm curious what went through the minds of Lee and Grant and others knowing someone they served with now on the other side died.

Thanks
 
Sometimes it seems like everybody knew everybody else in that war. Lincoln was well acquainted with Alexander Stephens and admired him. Lee was related to several of his generals - George Pickett, Harry Heth, Jeb Stuart, Fitzhugh Lee for a few, as well as Richard Page who was commander of the fort at Mobile Bay. (His daughter married the exec of the CSS Shendandoah.)
 
Okay, I'll rephrase the question. I'm interested in the relationships some of the principal participants had prior to the war. For instance did Lee or Jackson know Grant or Sherman before the war? Were they friends? How did they feel about trying to kill each other, or killing others that were classmates at West Point? What kind of animosity or grudges were held after the war?

I've tried to find this on my own, but with little success mostly due to time constraints. Honestly, for fifty years I really didn't think about the Civil War though I grew up close to Kennesaw Mountain. I'd find bullets and canister shot in our yard which my dad took so I wouldn't lose them and he forgot where he hid them and I never saw them again. Anyway, now I can't get enough of it, as if it just occurred to me that the country split, and friends became enemies and they killed one another. So I'm curious what went through the minds of Lee and Grant and others knowing someone they served with now on the other side died.

Thanks

Drut, I know it's not history, but try reading Killer Angels.....I think that makes it as clear as anything else. They all served together, went to West Point together, served in Mexico together, sometimes were engaged to the same girls, many were related (at least distantly or by marriage), and served in the U.S. military before the war together.

Just an example....If you go 25 miles south of me, to Ft. Mason, Texas, there was a veritable who's who of future generals who served pretty much during the same period (not generals at the time, mind you) on the frontier at that fort and the vicinity....William J. Hardee, Albert Sidney Johnston, Earl Van Dorn, Fitzhugh Lee, E. Kirby Smith, George H. Thomas, Robert E. Lee, John Bell Hood, and Philip St. George Cooke. In the wilds of Texas!

It's sort of like the small town we used to live in....we were related to half the town, then my daughter married a local guy and now--by marriage--we're related to the other half. Small world.
 
It's sort of like the small town we used to live in....we were related to half the town, then my daughter married a local guy and now--by marriage--we're related to the other half. Small world.

I know what you mean. A little community just down the road called ItchLikeHell, Mississippi about 90% of the community is related.
 
I tend to like the fact that George Pickett admired Lincoln and would not allow anyone to talk bad of him in his presence.
 
Grant talks some about this in his memoirs. Here is what he wrote about his meeting with Lee at Appomattox Courthouse: "We soon fell into a conversation about old army times. He remarked that he remembered me very well in the old army; and I told him that as a matter of course I remembered him perfectly, but from the difference in our rank and years (there being about sixteen years' difference in our ages), I had thought it very likely that I had not attracted his attention sufficiently to be remembered by him after such a long interval. Our conversation grew so pleasant that I almost forgot the object of our meeting."


When Hood learned of McPherson's death in battle at the hands of Hood's troops, he wrote "I will record the death of my classmate and boyhood friend, General James B. McPherson, the announcement of which caused me sincere sorrow. Since we had graduated in 1853, and had each been ordered off on duty in different directions, it has not been our fortune to meet. Neither the years nor the difference of sentiment that had led us to range ourselves on opposite sides in the war had lessened my friendship..."
 
Lee was related to several of his generals - George Pickett, Harry Heth, Jeb Stuart, Fitzhugh Lee for a few, as well as Richard Page who was commander of the fort at Mobile Bay.

Lee and Lewison Addison Armistead were cousins, also. Most of these guys' families intermarried. They were the "land owners" upon which the wealth of the South was based, after all. You had it, or you didn't. Look through the census records - there was no "middle class" in the South.
 
Another quote from Grant's memoirs, this time talking about the situation in east Tennessee after Chickamauaga:
"I had known both Bragg and Longstreet before the war, the latter very well. We had been three years at West Point together, and, after my graduation, for a time in the same regiment. Then we served together in the Mexican War. I had known Bragg in Mexico, and met him occasionally subsequently. I could well understand how there might be an irreconcilable difference between them."
 
"We soon fell into a conversation about old army times. He remarked that he remembered me very well in the old army; and I told him that as a matter of course I remembered him perfectly, but from the difference in our rank and years (there being about sixteen years' difference in our ages), I had thought it very likely that I had not attracted his attention sufficiently to be remembered by him after such a long interval. Our conversation grew so pleasant that I almost forgot the object of our meeting."

My guess is Grant was telling the truth, Lee was being polite. Such as it is in any hierarchy, military or otherwise.
 
My guess is that Grant was being modest.

Come to think of it, you are probably right. Regardless of rank, I suspect the story of Grant's horseback escapade at Monterrey, I think, in the Mexican War would have made him famous, even if senior officers wouldn't openly admit it.
 
Longstreet and Grant were best of friends;

General James Longstreet (1821-1904)

Confederate General James Longstreet discusses his friendship with Grant.

AT WEST POINT TOGETHER - GRANT'S COURTSHIP - THE WAR AND AFTERWARDS

Gainesville, Georgia, July 23 - "He was the truest as well as the bravest man that ever lived," was the remark made by General James Longstreet, when he recovered today from the emotion caused by the sad news of General Grant's death. Gen. Longstreet lives today in two-story house of modern stone, three miles from Gainesville, where, amid his vines and shrubs, he was seen by The Times correspondent. He was dressed in a long and many colored dressing gown; his white whiskers trimmed in the fashion of Burnside's, and he looked little like the stalwart figure which was in the thickest of the fight during the bloody battles in the late war.

Longstreet told us, "Ever since 1839, I have been on terms of the closest intimacy with Grant. I well remember the fragile form which answered to his name that year. His distinguishing trait as a cadet was a girlish modesty; a hesitancy in presenting his own claims; a taciturnity born of his modesty; but a thoroughness in the accomplishment of whatever task was assigned him. As I was of large and robust physique I was accomplished at most larks and games. But in these young Grant never joined because of his delicate frame. In horsemanship, however, he was noted as the most proficient in the Academy. In fact, rider and horse held together like the fabled centaur.

In 1842 I was attached to the Fourth Infantry as Second Lieutenant. A year later later Grant was in the same regiment, stationed at Jefferson Barracks, 12 miles from St. Louis. The friendship formed had never been broken; but there was a charm which held us together of which the world has never heard. My kinsman, Mr. Frederick Dent, was a substantial farmer living near the barracks. He has a liking for army officers, due to the fact that his son, Fred, was a pupil at West Point. One day I received an invitation to visit his house in order to meet young Fred, who had returned, and I asked Grant to go with me. This he did, and of course was introduced to the family, the last one to come in being Miss Julia Dent, the charming daughter of our host. (Note: Longstreet's account of Grant's initial meeting with Julia differs from other primary sources who claim he was not present on that day.) It is needless to say that we saw but little of Grant during the rest of the visit. He paid court in fact with such assiduity as to give rise to the hope that he forever gotten over his diffidence.

Five years later, in 1848, after the usual uncertainties of a soldier's courtship, Grant returned and claimed Miss Dent as a bride. I had been married just six months at that time, and my wife and I were among the guests at the wedding. Only a few months ago Mrs. Grant recalled to me an incident of our Jefferson life that was connected with Gen. Grant's courtship. Miss Dent had been escorted to the military balls so often by Lieutenant Grant that, on one occasion, when she happened to go with him, Lieutenant Hoskins went up to her and asked, with a pitiful expression on his face, "Where is that small man with the large epaulets?"

In 1844, the Fourth Regiment was sent to Louisiana to form part of the army of observation. Here, removed from all society, without books or pamphlets, we had an excellent opportunity of studying each other. I like everyone else always found Grant quiet and doing his duty in a simple manner. His honor was never suspected, his friendships were firm, his hatred of guile pronounced, and his detestation of tale bearers absolute. The soul of honor himself, he never suspected others either then or years afterward.

He could not bring himself to look upon the rascally side of human nature... We frequently engaged in the game of brag and five-cent ante and similar diversions. We instructed Grant in the mysteries of the game, but he made a poor player. The man who won 75 cents in one day was esteemed a fortunate person. The games often lasted an entire day. Years later, I happened to be in St. Louis and there met Captain Holloway and some other army chums. We went into the Planters House to talk over old times, and it was soon proposed to have an old time game of brag, but it was found we were one short of making up a full hand. Then a poorly dressed man in citizens clothes came in and in whom we recognized as our old chum Grant. Going into civil life Grant had been unfortunate, and he was really in needy circumstances.

The next day I was walking in front of the Planters when I found myself face to face with Grant, who, placing into the palm of my hand a 5 dollar gold piece, insisted that I should accept payment of a debt of honor 15 years old. I peremptorily declined to take it, alleging that he was out of service and more in need than I. 'You must take it,' said he. 'I cannot live with anything in my possession that is not mine.' Seeing the determination in the man's face, and in order to save him the mortification, I took the money and shaking hands, we parted. The next time we met was at Appomattox, and the first thing that General Grant said to me when we stepped inside, placing his hand in mine was, 'Pete, let us have another game of brag, to recall the days that were so pleasant.' Great God! I thought to myself, how my heart swells out out to such magnanimous touch of humanity. Why do men fight who were born to be brothers?
 
This is good, but it's Longstreet, after the war (cough, cough) and not Lee, at Appomatox, the original premise.
 
Thanks, everyone. I just obtained Killer Angels and Battle Cry of Freedom is next on the list.
 
Hope you have a lot of luck with your search drut. That, to me, would be an interesting topic to research. (secretly, I'm with Lazy Bayou, I thought we were goin to hear you got married again)
 
What was true in the Army officer corps was true for the Navy officer corps, perhaps even more so due to the Navy's smaller size. David Dixon Porter had worked closely with then Secretary-of-War Jefferson Davis, most famously on the Camel Corps project; Samuel Francis Du Pont and Andrew Hull Foote had been close collaborators with Stephen R. Mallory and Franklin Buchanan in reform efforts in the antebellum Navy; and my guy Henry Walke had been Isaac Newton Brown's messmate on an around-the-world voyage in the sloop Boston twenty-some years before they faced off against each other on the Yazoo River. Not to mention the examples of brothers who went different directions, including Percival and Thomas Drayton, Franklin and McKean Buchanan, and Foxhall and William Harwar Parker; and of course there's Rear Admiral S. Phillips Lee, a second (or third?) cousin of Captain Sidney Smith Lee and his little brother Robert.
 

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