Tracking down L.W.

Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Those manufacturers sold to both sides, you would still need import inspectors marks JS, IC, or other, if it were an E.P. Bond then you would be in the ballpark. The North almost exclusively imported Enfields in .577.
Nope, no such ironclad Confederate markings.

I only have The English Connection, so I don't know about potential sales to the Yanks. What's a good reference for Enfield sales to the Yanks? I'd be interested in learning more. If my Enfield is Yank, so be it...it would be nice to know one way or another...and then I only have 5,000+ Yank LW names to look through...haha....that's a lot of looking!
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
According to Joseph Bilby in his "Civil War Firearms" Caleb Huse (Southern agent) was able to secure the London Armory's machine made guns while their Northern counterparts were stuck with the hand made and fitted Birmingham makers, early in the war. I do not know how subsequent research affects his findings, but without specific markings it would be safe to assume a federal piece.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
I would like to learn more about Enfield production for both the Union and the Confederacy. So far, I have only been reading about the suppliers to the Confederacy. Are there any references (books, websites, etc) available that indicate which specific Birmingham firms sold to the Union and during what time periods?

I am honestly quite confused, but eager to learn from you all. My impression (perhaps mistaken) based on general lore, is that the Confederates got to Britain first and locked up much of the Enfield production early in the war. Based on The English Connection, it seems that the firms that supplied the Confederacy early in the war were straining to meet their contracts, so how could it be possible they were also producing for the Union (or is that why they were straining)? Was it possible for a firm be a Top 5 producer for the Confederacy yet still produce for the Union? Wouldn't the Union have sought contracts with firms that were not yet at the limits of their production capacity?

Getting back to the thread about LW, my questions would be: How many 1862 dated Enfields did the Union buy, and from whom? Were any 1862 dated Enfields sold to the Union by the firms C.W. James and W&C Scott?
 

RabbiJem

Cadet
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
I hope that this is of some use, there were four members of the 7th Louisiana Infantry that had the initials LW. (1) Pvt. Lawrence Weathers Co. G, Age: 23, Single, Born: Tennessee, Resident: New Orleans, Trade: Laborer. (2) Pvt. Leon Westerfield Co. E, Age: 20, Single, Born: Louisiana, Resident: New Orleans, Trade: Clerk. (3) Pvt. Leonard Wilson Co. G (4) 1/sgt 2Lt. Louis Worsherster Co. B, Age: 34, Married, 4 children, Born: Virginia, Trade: Lawyer. More details concerning their war records, Occupations after the war, age at the time of death, and final burial locations can be found in "Blow, Gabriel, Blow!" on amazon.com 1026 biographies 493 immigrants,75 northerners, fifty-one sets of brothers, or father/son.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
I hope that this is of some use, there were four members of the 7th Louisiana Infantry that had the initials LW. (1) Pvt. Lawrence Weathers Co. G, Age: 23, Single, Born: Tennessee, Resident: New Orleans, Trade: Laborer. (2) Pvt. Leon Westerfield Co. E, Age: 20, Single, Born: Louisiana, Resident: New Orleans, Trade: Clerk. (3) Pvt. Leonard Wilson Co. G (4) 1/sgt 2Lt. Louis Worsherster Co. B, Age: 34, Married, 4 children, Born: Virginia, Trade: Lawyer. More details concerning their war records, Occupations after the war, age at the time of death, and final burial locations can be found in "Blow, Gabriel, Blow!" on amazon.com 1026 biographies 493 immigrants,75 northerners, fifty-one sets of brothers, or father/son.

Thanks for sharing! One of the many LWs that might have carried my Enfield.
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
I would like to learn more about Enfield production for both the Union and the Confederacy. So far, I have only been reading about the suppliers to the Confederacy. Are there any references (books, websites, etc) available that indicate which specific Birmingham firms sold to the Union and during what time periods?

I am honestly quite confused, but eager to learn from you all. My impression (perhaps mistaken) based on general lore, is that the Confederates got to Britain first and locked up much of the Enfield production early in the war. Based on The English Connection, it seems that the firms that supplied the Confederacy early in the war were straining to meet their contracts, so how could it be possible they were also producing for the Union (or is that why they were straining)? Was it possible for a firm be a Top 5 producer for the Confederacy yet still produce for the Union? Wouldn't the Union have sought contracts with firms that were not yet at the limits of their production capacity?

Getting back to the thread about LW, my questions would be: How many 1862 dated Enfields did the Union buy, and from whom? Were any 1862 dated Enfields sold to the Union by the firms C.W. James and W&C Scott?
What other marks do you have on the piece, near trigger guard, butt plate, opposite lock on flat? Manufacturers mean little, the US purchased most of their Enfields early in the war at a 2 to 1 ratio than the CS. Chances are that it is a US purchase without one of the known CS import marks.
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
I am of the opinion that pinned initials were primarily Northern, federally issued arms and accouterments were not to be defaced in any manner. The captain of the company was to ascertain this in almost daily inspection, many feel that this did not happen, but battalion and regimental staff would also oversee on occasion and the company commander would pay a price if his soldiers "abused" their equipment. The captain of the company was charged for the defaced equipment, who in turn would charge the soldier in returns.

One finds that US accouterments are usually marked on the interior of the strap or flap, muskets pinned or otherwise innocuously marked. Southern accouterments and weapons on the other hand are marked quite obviously, with deep carvings where they were the most obvious, as a rule.
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
I would like to learn more about Enfield production for both the Union and the Confederacy. So far, I have only been reading about the suppliers to the Confederacy. Are there any references (books, websites, etc) available that indicate which specific Birmingham firms sold to the Union and during what time periods?

I am honestly quite confused, but eager to learn from you all. My impression (perhaps mistaken) based on general lore, is that the Confederates got to Britain first and locked up much of the Enfield production early in the war. Based on The English Connection, it seems that the firms that supplied the Confederacy early in the war were straining to meet their contracts, so how could it be possible they were also producing for the Union (or is that why they were straining)? Was it possible for a firm be a Top 5 producer for the Confederacy yet still produce for the Union? Wouldn't the Union have sought contracts with firms that were not yet at the limits of their production capacity?

Getting back to the thread about LW, my questions would be: How many 1862 dated Enfields did the Union buy, and from whom? Were any 1862 dated Enfields sold to the Union by the firms C.W. James and W&C Scott?
According to "Firearms From Europe" Noe, Nantz and Whisker, the primary Enfield supplier to the North was the newly formed Birmingham Small Arms Trade or Group. Dr. Daniel M Roche Ph.D. dissertation states that before the battle of Seven Pines 55% of the AOP were armed with foreign weapons, mostly Enfields. According to "Firearms From Europe" the Southern States had cornered the market on all Enfield production with the exception of the BSA and Col Schuyler was able to beat the Confederates to the punch.

The US purchased Enfields at a 3 to 1 rate until July 1863 when US production caught up, according to the above, though this does not include state purchases, from either side.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
What other marks do you have on the piece, near trigger guard, butt plate, opposite lock on flat? Manufacturers mean little, the US purchased most of their Enfields early in the war at a 2 to 1 ratio than the CS. Chances are that it is a US purchase without one of the known CS import marks.
Other marks include a Crown/2 behind the trigger guard tang, and a small WH in the stock opposite the lock.

I had no idea that the Union was buying Enfields at a 2:1 ratio. Where can I read more about Union purchases?
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
According to "Firearms From Europe" Noe, Nantz and Whisker, the primary Enfield supplier to the North was the newly formed Birmingham Small Arms Trade or Group. Dr. Daniel M Roche Ph.D. dissertation states that before the battle of Seven Pines 55% of the AOP were armed with foreign weapons, mostly Enfields. According to "Firearms From Europe" the Southern States had cornered the market on all Enfield production with the exception of the BSA and Col Schuyler was able to beat the Confederates to the punch.

The US purchased Enfields at a 3 to 1 rate until July 1863 when US production caught up, according to the above, though this does not include state purchases, from either side.
No BSAT marking on my Enfield. This line is what confuses me " According to "Firearms From Europe" the Southern States had cornered the market on all Enfield production with the exception of the BSA and Col Schuyler was able to beat the Confederates to the punch." I had believed most of the Enfields were cornered by the South early in the war, but the distinction here is that BSA production was not. Did the BSA Enfields all have the BSAT logo? Were the firms that made my Enfield BSA members, or is the term "BSA" used loosely and generically for any Birmingham manufacturer?
 

Package4

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
No BSAT marking on my Enfield. This line is what confuses me " According to "Firearms From Europe" the Southern States had cornered the market on all Enfield production with the exception of the BSA and Col Schuyler was able to beat the Confederates to the punch." I had believed most of the Enfields were cornered by the South early in the war, but the distinction here is that BSA production was not. Did the BSA Enfields all have the BSAT logo? Were the firms that made my Enfield BSA members, or is the term "BSA" used loosely and generically for any Birmingham manufacturer?
So, by the research of Dr. Rouche, who states that 55% of the AoP had mostly Enfields at Seven Pines would belie the "fact" that Confederates had gobbled up Enfield production. Combined with a 3 to 1 purchase of Enfields up to July 1863, it would be safe to assume that without an identifying mark of Southern inspection your piece would be considered Northern. Please provide a pic of the Crown/2, I do believe we can work with that and identify who may have imported.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
So, by the research of Dr. Rouche, who states that 55% of the AoP had mostly Enfields at Seven Pines would belie the "fact" that Confederates had gobbled up Enfield production. Combined with a 3 to 1 purchase of Enfields up to July 1863, it would be safe to assume that without an identifying mark of Southern inspection your piece would be considered Northern. Please provide a pic of the Crown/2, I do believe we can work with that and identify who may have imported.
Kewl! I'd love to find out more. Here is the pic...

20191006_154132.jpg
 
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