Top Three Corp Commanders?

[trice]

No love for Ol' Jeb anyone??

There are several Cavalry commanders during the war that would make anyone proud to have them. J. E. B. Stuart was certainly a fine example.

The Confederacy had quite a few. Nathan Bedford Forrest and Wade Hampton were strikingly effective commanding large cavalry forces. Forrest developed several division and brigade commanders that look good, and the same can be said for the men over in the ANV who served under Stuart and Hampton. East of the Mississpii, the only truly bad Cavalry commander that they had was Joe Wheeler -- which really means Bragg promoted him to a position he wasn't qualified or prepared for, he didn't really grow into it, and Joe Johnston/Hood/Beauregard/etc. were then stuck with him until the Confederate Congress finally promoted Wade Hampton over his head and sent him to the Carolinas to take charge.

West of the Mississippi, I am in the dark. Those guys are just names and headlines to me.

Sheridan was a very good, aggressive, independent commander. I am not sure that he had any particular relationship to Cavalry other than that.

Wilson developed into a good Cavalry commander rapidly when given the chance -- but he wasn't a match for Forrest in late 1864. He shows very well in 1865 against Forrest -- but he had major advantages. This included capturing the Prussian engineer officer who built the Selma defenses (and gladly told the Yankees all about them) as well as capturing a copy of Forrest's orders (much like McClellan's break before Antietam). The difference, of course, is that Wilson aggressively took advantage of what fell into his lap.

Other than that, the Yankees developed some good to very good division and brigade commanders of Cavalry by late in the war. We don't know how they would have done with larger forces, much as we don't with Chamblis or Butler on the Confederate side. George Custer, for example, was a very good division commander, very good indeed -- but his whole career reads like an account of a man who would only have one car accident, the fatal one. John Buford, of course, is a might have been.

Tim

 

[William]

When you Americans were "island hopping" in the Pacific wasn't it true that your forces had to kill essentially all of the Japanese personnel on that island and that a good percentage of the rest would commit harakiri? While, the Germans certainly put up a good fight against the Allied troops in Europe, I don't think it was to the same extent that the Japanese did in the Pacific.

As for my "dream team:"

Commander: General Ulysses S. Grant
Corps Commander: General "Stonewall" Jackson (somehow I can picture him and Grant working well)
Corps Commander: Winfield S. Hancock
Corps Commander: James Longstreet
Cavalry Commander: Sheridan

 

[millerpsc]

There are several Cavalry commanders during the war that would make anyone proud to have them. J. E. B. Stuart was certainly a fine example.

The Confederacy had quite a few. Nathan Bedford Forrest and Wade Hampton were strikingly effective commanding large cavalry forces. Forrest developed several division and brigade commanders that look good, and the same can be said for the men over in the ANV who served under Stuart and Hampton. East of the Mississpii, the only truly bad Cavalry commander that they had was Joe Wheeler -- which really means Bragg promoted him to a position he wasn't qualified or prepared for, he didn't really grow into it, and Joe Johnston/Hood/Beauregard/etc. were then stuck with him until the Confederate Congress finally promoted Wade Hampton over his head and sent him to the Carolinas to take charge.

West of the Mississippi, I am in the dark. Those guys are just names and headlines to me.

Sheridan was a very good, aggressive, independent commander. I am not sure that he had any particular relationship to Cavalry other than that.

Wilson developed into a good Cavalry commander rapidly when given the chance -- but he wasn't a match for Forrest in late 1864. He shows very well in 1865 against Forrest -- but he had major advantages. This included capturing the Prussian engineer officer who built the Selma defenses (and gladly told the Yankees all about them) as well as capturing a copy of Forrest's orders (much like McClellan's break before Antietam). The difference, of course, is that Wilson aggressively took advantage of what fell into his lap.

Other than that, the Yankees developed some good to very good division and brigade commanders of Cavalry by late in the war. We don't know how they would have done with larger forces, much as we don't with Chamblis or Butler on the Confederate side. George Custer, for example, was a very good division commander, very good indeed -- but his whole career reads like an account of a man who would only have one car accident, the fatal one. John Buford, of course, is a might have been.

Tim

I think Bufford was the most able cavalry commander the union had throughout the entire war. He was always in the right place at the right time, he held back longstreet at thourghfare gap and ap hill at gettysburg, both for several hours. He used the cavalry the way it should have been used unlike most other union commanders. If he had survived i believe he would have been right up there with sheridan.

 

[BillO]

I think Bufford was the most able cavalry commander the union had throughout the entire war. He was always in the right place at the right time, he held back longstreet at thourghfare gap and ap hill at gettysburg, both for several hours. He used the cavalry the way it should have been used unlike most other union commanders. If he had survived i believe he would have been right up there with sheridan.

Sheridan wouldn't make a good pimple on Bufords' butt.

 

[millerpsc]

lol

 

[rbasin]

The Army of Northern Virginia had Lee, Longstreet and Jackson, with Stuart as head of Cavalry. Don't think I could improve on that!!

The Union? Sherman as Army head, with Thomas and Wright as Corps Commanders with Sheridan as Cavalry head?

 

[R. Evans]

Taking some liberties and mixing the armies and expanding it to 5 corps.

Overall commander- U. S. Grant
!st Corps- R. E. Lee
2nd Corps- G. Thomas
3rd Corps- J. Longstreet
4th Corps- T. Jackson
5th Corps- W. Hancock
Calvary Corps- J. Buford with N. Forrest as his 2nd in command
Artillery Corps- H. Hunt with P. Alexander as his 2nd in command

And I'd be sure to include as division commanders,
P. Cleburne
J. Logan
P. Sheridan
P. Kearny
W. Hardee
W. Sherman
J. McPherson
J. Chamberlain
J. Bowen
J. Stuart
P. Beauregard
And a host of others.

 

[Bowen]

For the Confederacy the top three corps commanders were Stonewall Jackson, William Hardee, and James Longstreet. For the cavalry I actually prefer Wade Hampton to Jeb Stuart. Forrest was better in independent operations.

 

[Bowen]

The Army of Northern Virginia had Lee, Longstreet and Jackson, with Stuart as head of Cavalry. Don't think I could improve on that!!

The Union? Sherman as Army head, with Thomas and Wright as Corps Commanders with Sheridan as Cavalry head?

Grant as head with corps commanders Thomas, Hancock, and Reynolds.

 

[Bowen]

Taking some liberties and mixing the armies and expanding it to 5 corps.

Overall commander- U. S. Grant
!st Corps- R. E. Lee
2nd Corps- G. Thomas
3rd Corps- J. Longstreet
4th Corps- T. Jackson
5th Corps- W. Hancock
Calvary Corps- J. Buford with N. Forrest as his 2nd in command
Artillery Corps- H. Hunt with P. Alexander as his 2nd in command

And I'd be sure to include as division commanders,
P. Cleburne
J. Logan
P. Sheridan
P. Kearny
W. Hardee
W. Sherman
J. McPherson
J. Chamberlain
J. Bowen
J. Stuart
P. Beauregard
And a host of others.

Excellent choices. Do not forget though Fitz-John Porter and William J. Hardee.

 

[bdietzler73]

My take:

Lee overall Army Commander
1st Corps-Jackson
2nd Corps-Hancock
3rd Corps-Longstreet

 

[R. Evans]

Excellent choices. Do not forget though Fitz-John Porter and William J. Hardee.

I have Hardee as a Division commander. Left out Porter because he'd probably stab all the others in the back.

 

[Bowen]

I have Hardee as a Division commander. Left out Porter because he'd probably stab all the others in the back.

Porter was solid during the Seven Days and was vindicated in 1882.

 

[ErnieMac]

I'd give Jubal Early a good deal of consideration as a Corps Commander.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

I think Bufford was the most able cavalry commander the union had throughout the entire war. He was always in the right place at the right time, he held back longstreet at thourghfare gap and ap hill at gettysburg, both for several hours. He used the cavalry the way it should have been used unlike most other union commanders. If he had survived i believe he would have been right up there with sheridan.

As much as I love John Buford, having studied his life and career for nearly 25 years, I have to correct you. The Thoroughfare Gap thing never happened. That's a myth that's been perpetuated by The Killer Angels for far, far too long. There may have been a handful of troopers of the 5th New York Cavalry of Buford's brigade at Thoroughfare Gap, but that was an infantry fight involving Ricketts' division.

Buford did sit at Gainesville and count Longstreet's units as they went by, but he did not make a stand against him.

And had Buford lived, he would have become the commander of the Army of the Cumberland's Cavalry Corps, where he would have taught Joe Wheeler a thing or two about the proper use of cavalry.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

I find these suggestions about Forrest as a corps commander quite humorous indeed.

Aside from the fact that he was not a cavalryman in any sense of the word, let's look at his track record.

Army discipline requires that subordinate officers obey the lawful orders of their superiors. Otherwise, you have chaos, not discipline. Therefore, a subordinate who refuses to obey the lawful orders of their superiors is useless to an army, no matter how talented that insubordinate junior officer might be. Forrest refused to obey lawful, direct orders given to him by superior officers, and is lucky that he was not executed by first Bragg and then by Hood for gross insubordination.

His refusal to obey orders made him entirely useless in any capacity but independent command. And as an independent commander, he was not much more than Mosby on a larger scale, requiring the Union to devote more resources, but what did he really accomplish? Nothing. And certainly nothing more than Mosby did.

I would choose Wade Hampton as my cavalry commander ANY time over Forrest. Why? Because Hampton was the ultimate subordinate, the ultimate team player. And he was just as hard and effective of a fighter. The difference is that Hampton actually obeyed his orders.

Please feel free to prove me wrong. It's going to take facts, not "Jane, you ignorant ****" arguments. Prove me wrong, and I will admit it. Otherwise.....

 

[Bowen]

Excuse me but Forrest was the only guy out West who got into the North's head. His victory at Brice's Cross Roads showed he was a commander of great tactical skill and Sherman referred to him as the most remarkable man produced by our Civil War. Very few people could work under Bragg who was insane and Hood was criminally incompetent during his Tennessee command. Comparing Forrest to Mosby is just beyond belief. If you want to say that since the South lost the war what good were his victories? then you could say the same thing about Robert E. Lee. Forrest accomplished a hell of a lot more than Mosby so where you got that idea I do not know. "I did not come (to Ft. Donelson) for the purpose of surrendering my command" defined Forrest's fighting spirit and will to win. Forrest was a brilliant combined arms commander - cavalry, infantry and artillery. His capture of Colonel Streight was classic and the South would have been better off if NBF had shot Bragg and Hood in the head. Thousands of Southern boys and maybe Pat Cleburne would have survived.

 

[mphstteach]

Overall command- Grant
1st corps- Jackson ( can you imagine what Jackson could do if led by another bulldog like Grant? Seems like they thought much alike when it came to taking it to the enemy)
2nd corps- Sherman
3rd corps- Chamberlain (its a fantasy draft I can do what I want lol
Cavalry- Mosby ( I would love to see what he could have done on a grand scale)

 

[FZ11]

Grant...Meade...Reynolds...Hancock...Hunt...Hampton. If it ain't broke:don't fix it......much. Lol.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Excuse me but Forrest was the only guy out West who got into the North's head. His victory at Brice's Cross Roads showed he was a commander of great tactical skill and Sherman referred to him as the most remarkable man produced by our Civil War. Very few people could work under Bragg who was insane and Hood was criminally incompetent during his Tennessee command. Comparing Forrest to Mosby is just beyond belief. If you want to say that since the South lost the war what good were his victories? then you could say the same thing about Robert E. Lee. Forrest accomplished a hell of a lot more than Mosby so where you got that idea I do not know. "I did not come (to Ft. Donelson) for the purpose of surrendering my command" defined Forrest's fighting spirit and will to win. Forrest was a brilliant combined arms commander - cavalry, infantry and artillery. His capture of Colonel Streight was classic and the South would have been better off if NBF had shot Bragg and Hood in the head. Thousands of Southern boys and maybe Pat Cleburne would have survived.

Opinion and overheated emotional rhetoric--just exactly what I said was NOT an appropriate response. Facts, please.