Too quick to draw blood !

[W. Richardson]

Was the United States attack at 1st Manassas (Bull Run) a premature action?

Respectfully,

William Richardson

 

[Andy Cardinal]

I'm pretty sure McDowell and the other professional military men thought so, but the politicians and newspaper men disagreed.

Here is what Winfield Scott allegedly had to say afterward: "Sir, I am the greatest coward in America.... I have fought this battle, sir, against my judgment. I think the president of the United States ought to remove me today for doing it. As God is my judge, after my superiors had determined to fight it, I did all in my power to fight it. I deserve removal because I did not stand up when my army was not in condition for fighting and resist it to the last."

 

[W. Richardson]

I'm pretty sure McDowell and the other professional military men thought so, but the politicians and newspaper men disagreed.

Here is what Winfield Scott allegedly had to say afterward: "Sir, I am the greatest coward in America.... I have fought this battle, sir, against my judgment. I think the president of the United States ought to remove me today for doing it. As God is my judge, after my superiors had determined to fight it, I did all in my power to fight it. I deserve removal because I did not stand up when my army was not in condition for fighting and resist it to the last."

Scott stepped up for his lack of responsibility. Lincoln went into defense mode, and deflected blame. You are correct, politicians and newspaper men disagreed, and Lincoln bowed to the pressure. In the end, the military men were correct.

Respectfully,
William Richardson

 

[DaveBrt]

Had the troops from the Valley not made it when they did, the whole story would have been different. Then it would have been a brilliant move to crush the rebellion before it took firm hold.

 

[Andy Cardinal]

Had the troops from the Valley not made it when they did, the whole story would have been different. Then it would have been a brilliant move to crush the rebellion before it took firm hold.

Might have been, no one can know for sure, but certainly that was a major factor in how things turned out.

Another major factor was that McDowell's army was attacking and the Confederates were defending. Defense was a lot easier for green troops than maintaining a successful attack.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Was the United States attack at 1st Manassas (Bull Run) a premature action?

Yes the federals governments first attempt to put down the rebellion was properly too early.

But it was properly unavoidable.
Politically an offensive was needed.
Public opinion demanded it.
And the enlistments would run out before the army could be ready anyway.
And with both sides so green it would always be a roll of the dice and hope for the best.

 

[Stone in the wall]

Yes, but Lincoln had said to McDowell something like the enemy is just as green as your own troops. McDowell and Beauregard both had the same plan, attack the enemies left. Had Patterson not let Johnson's troops slip away, Beauregard most likely wouldn't be planning to attack. Being on the defense he may have been able to beat McDowell back. Like it was already said "no one can know for sure"

 

[Coonewah Creek]

I think the main driving factor for Lincoln pushing McDowell, even though McDowell knew his men were unready, was the term of enlistments for the original 90-day volunteers was about to expire and he wanted action before that happened...

 

[Andy Cardinal]

I think the main driving factor for Lincoln pushing McDowell, even though McDowell knew his men were unready, was the term of enlistments for the original 90-day volunteers was about to expire and he wanted action before that happened...

Back to Patterson, one often overlooked aspect of his failure was that the terms for his men had already expired.

In McDowell's army, 1 regiment marched away on the morning of July 21 and refused to fight in the battle because their enlistment had expired.

 

[Stone in the wall]

Granted thought was, this is going to be a short war. But 90 day troops, and it takes almost 90 days to even get to Manassas. How long did it take to get real enlistments going?

 

[thomas aagaard]

Granted thought was, this is going to be a short war. But 90 day troops, and it takes almost 90 days to even get to Manassas. How long did it take to get real enlistments going?

Lincoln knew that the war would not be over in 90 days.
The first call on April 15th was what he could just do as President under the militia act of 1792.
And it did force all the states to declare their positions.

On may 3rd Lincoln expanded the regular army by 22.700 positions(a number never reached) and the navy by 18.000 sailors.
And there was a call for 42.000 3 year volunteers

Lincoln did this without congress, since it was not in session.

This fitted Scotts plan where he wanted a field army of 42.000 volunteers and 25.000 regulars. A force he, based on his experience in Mexico, he thought could do the job.

When Congress got into session It then approved of Lincolns enlargement of the regular army and called for 500.000 3 year volunteers on July 22nd 1861.

 

[Stone in the wall]

Lincoln knew that the war would not be over in 90 days.
The first call on April 15th was what he could just do as President under the militia act of 1792.
And it did force all the states to declare their positions.

On may 3rd Lincoln expanded the regular army by 22.700 positions(a number never reached) and the navy by 18.000 sailors.
And there was a call for 42.000 3 year volunteers

Lincoln did this without congress, since it was not in session.

This fitted Scotts plan where he wanted a field army of 42.000 volunteers and 25.000 regulars. A force he, based on his experience in Mexico, he thought could do the job.

When Congress got into session It then approved of Lincolns enlargement of the regular army and called for 500.000 3 year volunteers on July 22nd 1861.

Is there a reason that Congress couldn't have met earlier? One would think this war is a pretty big deal.

 

[Andy Cardinal]

Is there a reason that Congress couldn't have met earlier? One would think this war is a pretty big deal.

One reason is travel time for all the members to get to Washington.

Another, in my opinion, is that Lincoln wanted to give himself some space.

 

[jackt62]

Everything that has been said about Lincoln's haste in having the army go on the offensive despite the lack of training and discipline by "green" troops certainly hobbled what was otherwise a decent enough flanking movement that was planned by McDowell. But IMO, the failure by Patterson to hold Johnston's Army of the Shenandoah in the Valley and prevent him from reinforcing Beauregard, was the critical issue that spelled defeat for the Union.

 

[Stone in the wall]

You can be sure Patterson had his hands full with Turner Ashby, who was keeping him busy.

 

[thomas aagaard]

One reason is travel time for all the members to get to Washington.

Another, in my opinion, is that Lincoln wanted to give himself some space.

This page give the list of sessions of congress.

U.S. Senate: Dates of Sessions of the Congress

www.senate.gov

the 36th congress ended its last session on march 3rd, the day before Lincoln was sworn in.

If nothing special had happened the 37th congress would not have been in session until December 1861.

The 37th congress had a special session in march 1861 and then a "normal" session in July.
But even with the war congress did generally stick to the system of a 1st "long" session from December to July. And then the 2nd "short" session from the following December to march.

The only change with the 38th congress and 39th congress was adding a special session in march just after the last congress had ended. And then they did not go into session until the following December.

Looking at the rest of the 19th century, this special session in march do look like it became normal, but not every Congress have it.


Travel time, tradition, the fact that being a member of congress was not a full time job and the fact that they where usually appointed by the stategovernments... not elected are all likely factors.