Time to muster the troops again....

[Irishtom29]

But it's okay for you to tell everyone else that they're wrong for feeling sentimental and reverent about the battlefield and opposing this for that reason?

To feel sentimental and reverent, that's not wrong, for outsiders to oppose the development for that reason is. The people of Adams County can do as they please as far as I'm concerned. And yes, it's OK for me to say this.

 

[Bee]

To feel sentimental and reverent, that's not wrong, for outsiders to oppose the development for that reason is. The people of Adams County can do as they please as far as I'm concerned. And yes, it's OK for me to say this.

Actually, since it is a national park that is being impacted, there is nothing "outsider" about the "nation" having an opinion about such change. If potential battlefield is being built upon for the proposed commercial ventures, than once again: it IS very much he concern of all the people, not just Adams County. This is not a state deciding whether or not to fly a flag, or a city deciding on monuments, rather, it is the nation paying attention, standing up, weighing in, and taking action if need be, if land of national interest is to be impacted. There is already a parking lot over one part of the battleground, and a restaurant over another. Swift action is the only answer, because once its gone.....its gone forever.

I am going to be brutally honest here: The study of the Civil War is on the decline. In the next 10 years, there is going to be a huge loss in participants due to aging out. Demographics is weighing heavily with seniors. Once age takes is toll, we lose our clout -- time is not on our side. Swift action is imperative.

 

[Irishtom29]

Actually, since it is a national park that is being impacted, there is nothing "outsider" about the "nation" having an opinion about such change...

I'm convinced.

 

[War Horse]

How about this. It will certainly effect the existing infrastructure of the town and surrounding areas. Gettysburg is Hallowed ground! The ground has been preserved and more ground is being continuously acquired by the NPS. We currently have the luxury of being able to visit at our convenience. Add a casino and the existing infrastructure will not be able to acomadate the masses which means more building! Now think about the magic of the place. When I'm at the Mine, Oroarks, Farnsworth House I enjoy talking to people who are there for the same reason as I am. The battle! Add a casino and the hotel rooms will become scarce and gamblers will be there who could care less that there is a battlefield within a 100 miles of the casino. 3, 5, 10 miles are all to close. I would also like to point out the crime that casinos attract. Surrounding areas quickly deteriorate and crime increase. I would think anyone truly interested in history would oppose this needless and destructive proposal. Trust me Gettysburg would never be the same! I for one have no desire to have lunch next to a guy who wants to talk about being beaten by a 21 draw verses someone who wants to discuss an aspect of the battle!

 

[KansasFreestater]

Here's a map of Vicksburg with the four casinos noted and the nearby military park in green.

As I said, I'm not a casino aficionado, but I do know they have provided a lot of jobs to locals there. Maybe this is just another case of 'not in my own backyard'?

View attachment 120136

This makes me sad. Those casinos appear to be right smack on the same bluffs from which Confederate cannon blasted away at Union gunboats and transports in April 1863 preparatory to Grant's crossing the river and ultimately taking Vicksburg. Then again, Vicksburg quit celebrating July 4th for a hundred years after the Union victory there. Maybe it's a past they don't want to remember?

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

@Irishtom29 no, it is not usual on this forum to contribute to a thread where one has no interest and states this in a post. This is not Reddit and snark is discouraged. Those are forum rules not some made-up perspective held by a few members.

There is a reason the long running battle over this casino is a topic. It does involve respect for our fallen soldiers. Since you know this plus already stated you have no interest in this topic, perhaps contribute when you have something positive to say.

 

[RobertP]

This makes me sad. Those casinos appear to be right smack on the same bluffs from which Confederate cannon blasted away at Union gunboats and transports in April 1863 preparatory to Grant's crossing the river and ultimately taking Vicksburg. Then again, Vicksburg quit celebrating July 4th for a hundred years after the Union victory there. Maybe it's a past they don't want to remember?

Actually the casinos at Vicksburg are on riverboats. It's a State law and those "boats" are really barges made up to look like paddle wheelers. The only land based casino in Mississippi is on an Indian reservation. Now the adjoining hotels are on the river bank. I believe one is next door a Confederate river battery site, another adjacent to Navy Circle (Union). It's much the same in neighboring Louisiana; all casinos are on water except the big one in New Orleans at the foot of Canal St.

 

[CMWinkler]

Just as a quick note, my original post has been censored involuntarily and to my great unhappiness--I have no tolerance for censorship. I stand by my original characterization of the person responsible. However, on second thought, I've come to the conclusion that calling him a clown is an insult to all of the creepy clowns in the world.

It was edited. It was edited by me. It was not censorship as you claim, but an attempt to bring your post into compliance with forum rules. As I told you in the notice of the editing, I understand your emotion and even agree with their sentiments. The problem is your language was deemed to be detrimental to the forum. Your subsequent complaints about the editing do you no credit. This forum belongs to the owners. You are a guest here. As a guest, you are expected to follow the rules the same as everyone else. If you are unhappy with moderation, feel free to take it up with Mike privately, as your public complaints also violate forum rules.

Posted as a Moderator

 

[Irishtom29]

@Irishtom29 no, it is not usual on this forum to contribute to a thread where one has no interest and states this in a post. This is not Reddit and snark is discouraged. Those are forum rules not some made-up perspective held by a few members.

I submit that opposing something is evidence of interest in it.

In any event Bee's well reasoned and curt but courteous post has convinced me I was in error.

 

[John Winn]

I think you get my point, you just don't agree with it. But to be clear, I think people do things in their spare time that they enjoy. If they go someplace to feel awe or reverence it's because they enjoy the feeling. They do it for themselves and it doesn't make them more virtuous than the person who enjoys playing slot machines nor is their enjoyment on a higher level.

The park is the park and outside is outside. Is Gettysburg so different from Chattanooga, Murfreesboro, Vicksburg and Atlanta? Is Sugars BBQ joint on the side of Missionary Ridge a desecration to the sacred memory of Phil Sheridan? Or is it just Chattanooga getting along with life? People live in these towns and go about their business--the towns change, they grow or decline. That business is their business, not mine.

As for what I do feel sentimental and reverent about, I keep that to myself, it's none of your business.

Thanks for the answer. And sorry to have angered your for questioning your sense of reverence and sentiment but you broached the subject, using both terms, earlier so I felt it was reasonable to make that note. We don't agree but now I'm clear on your stance - and I think on your point - so that's that.

Oh, and I didn't say or imply that Gettysburg visitors were more virtuous than casino customers. In fact, I said putting the casino perhaps ten miles away would allow the benefits while not negatively affecting the park. My opinion is that the battlefield is a national treasure that ought not be desecrated by non-compatible commercial development. So I'll ask you not to put words in my mouth.

 

[photoman475]

What declining economy?

Well, E_just_E, I can't speak for the economy in the Gettysburg area, or for where you live, but here in Fargo, the local mall has two closed food court spots, two just closed clothing stores, one that will close in about 3 weeks, and a major anchor store, Sears, that is closing as soon as the inventory is sold out. A Kmart just closed in next door Moorhead, and another one 50 miles east in Detroit Lakes. A Macy's in Grand Forks, 80 miles north, is closing shortly also. No one is proposing a casino to replace these jobs. The economy has gone down out here in the Upper Great Plains.

While the proposed Gettysburg casino may very well provide some jobs, and bring in the attendant problems of rising prices for hotels, food, etc., I don't see how it will contribute to the economy of Gettysburg in the long term.

 

[FarawayFriend]

I am going to be brutally honest here: The study of the Civil War is on the decline. In the next 10 years, there is going to be a huge loss in participants due to aging out.

Bee, I hope not. I hope that with the opportunity for traveling becoming more and more a common thing there will be new people joining the community. Look at me, five years ago I would never have thought of posting in a CW forum! The fascination stays the same.

In any event Bee's well reasoned and curt but courteous post has convinced me I was in error.

Aw, and I had gathered so many quotes to reply to...
So we can return now to the original purpose of this thread and think about what we can do...

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

Sounds like something a clown would do.

 

[huskerblitz]

Kinda of begs the question, At what radius from Gettysburg do you feel a development like this is acceptable? 3 miles, 5, 10, 20

And this is where I am at. We can't save everything and at some point life has to move forward. How far away is far enough? I don't know. But I also do not live in that area and I have no idea if the jobs created and the money generated is desperately needed in the area. That's where the local decision has to come into play. BTW...I don't gamble (don't ride motorcycles either).

 

[Bee]

I hope that with the opportunity for traveling becoming more and more a common thing there will be new people joining the community.

פֿון דײַן מויל אין גאָטס אויערן --> From your mouth to G-d's ears

 

[MaryDee]

. . . here in Fargo, the local mall has two closed food court spots, two just closed clothing stores, one that will close in about 3 weeks, and a major anchor store, Sears, that is closing as soon as the inventory is sold out. A Kmart just closed in next door Moorhead, and another one 50 miles east in Detroit Lakes. A Macy's in Grand Forks, 80 miles north, is closing shortly also. No one is proposing a casino to replace these jobs. The economy has gone down out here in the Upper Great Plains.

Those particular stores happen to be failing all over, and will probably go out of business nationwide in another year or two. The Portland (OR) area has a vibrant economy, but those particular stores are closing here, too.

 

[KansasFreestater]

Actually the casinos at Vicksburg are on riverboats. It's a State law and those "boats" are really barges made up to look like paddle wheelers. The only land based casino in Mississippi is on an Indian reservation. Now the adjoining hotels are on the river bank. I believe one is next door a Confederate river battery site, another adjacent to Navy Circle (Union). It's much the same in neighboring Louisiana; all casinos are on water except the big one in New Orleans at the foot of Canal St.

THANK YOU for clarifying! Obviously I've never been there! Guess I'll have a chance to check out the scene for myself in a few months since my sister and I are planning a trip there in June.

 

[spongebob]

My family and my friends await direction on how to support a successful block of this latest threat.

 

[klongstreet]

How about this. It will certainly effect the existing infrastructure of the town and surrounding areas. Gettysburg is Hallowed ground! The ground has been preserved and more ground is being continuously acquired by the NPS. We currently have the luxury of being able to visit at our convenience. Add a casino and the existing infrastructure will not be able to acomadate the masses which means more building! Now think about the magic of the place. When I'm at the Mine, Oroarks, Farnsworth House I enjoy talking to people who are there for the same reason as I am. The battle! Add a casino and the hotel rooms will become scarce and gamblers will be there who could care less that there is a battlefield within a 100 miles of the casino. 3, 5, 10 miles are all to close. I would also like to point out the crime that casinos attract. Surrounding areas quickly deteriorate and crime increase. I would think anyone truly interested in history would oppose this needless and destructive proposal. Trust me Gettysburg would never be the same! I for one have no desire to have lunch next to a guy who wants to talk about being beaten by a 21 draw verses someone who wants to discuss an aspect of the battle!

Well said War Horse, I for one would not like to see this casino anywhere near Gettysburg, the Mine is a great place for people to meet up and relax, I wouldn't want that to change. Great Post

 

[Eleanor Rose]

the Mine is a great place for people to meet up and relax

I have visited Farnsworth House on a few occasions (love the drinks, the people and Gettysburg on loop), but I have never ventured into the Mine. I did spot it on my visit last year. I'll have to stop there on my next visit.

Oroarks

Where is Oroarks? Would love to add it to my list too.