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The True Reason For the War...

Discussion in 'Civil War History - Secession and Politics' started by 5fish, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. 5fish

    5fish Captain

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    Here is a simple truth why we had a civil war in 1861: First, let's go over a few of the supposed reason why the Southern Slave states chose secession and then war... Because Abe Lincoln was elected, it was because of taxes, it was because of south wanted to expand slavery, and the best one the South wanted to protect their southern heritage. It was all attempts to misguide from the simple political truth caused by 1860 election results.

    Party summary[edit]


    Senate[edit]

    Party
    (shading shows control)
    Total Vacant
    Democratic
    (D)
    Republican
    (R)
    Unionist
    (U)
    Other
    (O)

    End of the previous congress
    25 26 0 (American)
    2 53 15

    Begin
    22 29 1 0 52 16
    End 12 30 7 49 19
    Final voting share 24.5% 61.2% 14.3% 0.0%
    Beginning of the next congress 10 31 4 3
    (Unconditional
    Unionist
    ) 48 20

    House of Representatives[edit]


    Party
    (shading shows control)
    Total Vacant
    Constitutional
    Unionist

    (CU)
    Democratic
    (D)
    Independent
    Democratic

    (ID)
    Republican
    (R)
    Unionist
    (U)
    Other

    End of the previous congress
    0 6 56 116 0 32 210 29
    Begin 2 44 1 107 23 0 177 63
    End 1 45 106 30 183 57
    Final voting share 0.5% 24.6% 0.5% 57.9% 16.4% 0.0%
    Beginning of the next congress
    0 72 0 85 9 14 180 61

    Do You See It!!! I underlined it for you. The Republican Party the anti-slave party had close 2/3's majorities in both the House and in the Senate. The Southern slave states were in a no-win situation for the Republican party could pass laws at will against slavery, even Constitutional amendments. The kicker is Lincoln is president a Republican so the government was in total control of an anti-slavery party, no recourse and no political protection for the slave states. A political gun was put to the head of the Southern Slave states.

    What is the Slave States going to do being checkmated by the political rules of the day?

    The slave states chose not to play by the rules and tried to create it own rules by succession.

    So 150 years of bull on what caused the war and it was simply a total loss of political influence by the Southern States in 1860 election, not an exciting topic to sell books on...
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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  3. Jimklag

    Jimklag Major Forum Host Silver Patron Trivia Game Winner

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    This thread, by its inane ideas and grammatical dexterity, merits exactly zero replies. But that won't stop anyone but me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  4. Lnwlf

    Lnwlf Brigadier General Moderator

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    Kinda late to be saying that, ain't it? :wink:
     
  5. Jimklag

    Jimklag Major Forum Host Silver Patron Trivia Game Winner

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    Generally, yes. For this specific thread, no.
     
  6. 5fish

    5fish Captain

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    The personal attacks only come when the truth can not be denied... I know sadly I have brought out the ugly truth and you do not like it. You want the romantic reasons for the war...
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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  7. matthew mckeon

    matthew mckeon Brigadier General Moderator

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    What the OP is saying is that the slaveholding slaves seceded to protect slavery from Abraham Lincoln. OK. The "gun" was not allowing slavery into the West.
     
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  8. matthew mckeon

    matthew mckeon Brigadier General Moderator

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    If anyone doesn't feel like this thread is worthwhile, by no means feel compelled to response to it.
     
  9. 5fish

    5fish Captain

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    @Lnwlf you a mod you should be kinder... I know I have now made our civil war unsexy...
     
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  10. 5fish

    5fish Captain

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    Oh know... there is nothing in this thread that is offensive except the truth. Do you think the slave states could have lived for two years watching anti-slavery laws being passed and they could no nothing to stop it...
     
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  11. Jimklag

    Jimklag Major Forum Host Silver Patron Trivia Game Winner

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    Ugly? Yes. Truth? You flatter yourself.
     
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  12. Lnwlf

    Lnwlf Brigadier General Moderator

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    Not being unkind to anyone, rather noticing a certain amount of irony in the first response to the OP. I was not even eluding to you or your post. I am sorry you took it otherwise.
     
  13. matthew mckeon

    matthew mckeon Brigadier General Moderator

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    Well, in the spirit of constructive criticism, your rhetoric is not always scaled to your conclusions. I mean, your prose is heated, but the factual content is mundane.
     
  14. 5fish

    5fish Captain

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    Yes, mundane truth... the slave states lost thier say in Congress and the fear true or not that slavery was under threat drove them to seccede... it's not exciting... or romantic as for the other reason why...
     
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  15. White Flint Bill

    White Flint Bill Private

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    I've seen lots of threads on the question of why the southern states seceded (an interesting subject, to be sure) but none on the question of why the northern states went to war to prevent it.

    I'd be curious to hear opinions on that topic. Specifically, what motivated Northern men to take up arms and wage war against the men of the seceded states? What were they fighting for? Union? If so, has there ever been a war commenced and waged over such an abstract rationale? I can understand the motives of Southerners who viewed their country/states/homes as being invaded. But what motivates the invader? Why kill and be killed to compel southerners to remain in a union they no longer desired? Did northern men believe that secession was a threat to them and their families? If so, how?

    My thought is that northern men were motivated initially by outrage over the attack on Ft. Sumter. That's the only answer that makes sense to me, although I realize it is difficult/impossible to know what was in men's minds at the time.
     
  16. thomas aagaard

    thomas aagaard 2nd Lieutenant

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    But what was the rules of the day?

    Did bills require a simple majority or 60% 66%? in the two chambers back then.


    (Today the fact that some types of bills need 60 votes in the senate is a rather big issue for the republicans... and that the rules for this have changed over time... So that is why Iam asking)


    Would still need to be sent to the states for ratification...
     
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  17. matthew mckeon

    matthew mckeon Brigadier General Moderator

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    So if its mundane, and generally acknowledged, why are you promoting the idea that you are revealing some hidden truth?
     
  18. matthew mckeon

    matthew mckeon Brigadier General Moderator

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    WFB,
    Believe it or not, we have had threads on the motivations of the guys who joined the United States Army to subdue the rebellion and preserve the Union. But who likes the sound of his own voice? That's right. I do.
     
  19. White Flint Bill

    White Flint Bill Private

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    I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I hope you'll pardon me, as I'm a newcomer here. I haven't seen those threads, but I'll try to search them out. Thanks
     
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  20. matthew mckeon

    matthew mckeon Brigadier General Moderator

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    Northern white men, and white men from the border states fought to preserve the Union and for the nation and government that gave them a voice in political affairs, economically opportunity and civil rights not found anywhere else in the world. They fought to save democracy, then under attack and in retreat in much of Europe and Latin America. They kept faith with the men who fought the Revolution and established the Constitution, their 'greatest generation."
     
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  21. matthew mckeon

    matthew mckeon Brigadier General Moderator

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    Meaning I was about to launch into a big lecture!
     

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