The "Bigbee Boats"

[rebelatsea]

The "Bigbee boats"

Type: Ironclad Steam sloop. Screws 2. Speed 9 knots calculated
Dimensions: 172ft OA x 41ft Ex x 11ft D, 1,108 tons
Armour: 4" iron, 40degree slope
Guns: 2 -7" Brooke MLR, 2 -8" Brooke SB
Laid Down: 08/1862 Not completed
Design: J. L. Porter (original) possibly.
Builder: Sidney D Porter & J. W. Watson, Oven Bluff, on the Tombigbee River Al.
History Two contracted for 19th August 1862 by Commodore Ebenezer Farrand to plans submitted by the CSN Navy Department. Attributed to John L. Porter, but significant features indicate he may not have been the originator. Towed to Mobile for completion, never received armour or guns, although engined late 1863 - early 1864.Known as "Bigbee Boats". Whether names were assigned is unknown

.



Name Unknown (possibly CSS Powell)

Type: Ironclad Steam sloop. Paddles: 2 side wheels. Speed 9 knots calculated
Dimensions: 195ft OA x 44ft Ex x 14ft D, 1,716 tons
Armour: 4" iron, 40degree slope backing unknown
Guns: 2 -7" double banded Brooke MLR, 2 -8" Brooke SB
Laid Down: 08/1862 Not completed
Design: J. L. Porter
Builder: Sidney D Porter & J. W. Watson, Oven Bluff, on the Tombigbee River, Ala.
History: Conjectural appearance plan based on J. L. Porter's plan for the 160ft pp "Bigbee boats" itself based on his gunboat no 1 plan.
Constructed by S. J. Porter and J. W. Watson at Oven Bluff on the Tombigbee River. One, possibly named CSS Powell taken to Mobile and provided there with two engines built at the CSN Ironworks at Columbus Georgia. Not armed or armoured but known to present during the Battle of Mobile Bay, taking no active part, her final fate is unknown

. Name Unknown


Constructed at Oven Bluff under the same contract as CSS Powell, an un named sister ship was either burned on the stocks or burned after launching. The remains of a vessel found in Sunflower Bend, a nearby creek, may be this ship.


===============================================================

 

[sailorruss]

From my limited knowledge about the area and my continuing research on shipyards in the Confederacy I have read that Oven Bluff was reactivated toward the end of the war. I also have a few questions from my neck of the woods but I'm not going to jam up the thread!

May I PM you?

 

[5fish]

I found this on page 166 on the Tombigbee river at Oven Bluff...

https://books.google.com/books?id=U...CAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=The “Bigbee boats”&f=false

 

[5fish]

Here on the Mobile river...

https://books.google.com/books?id=u...CAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=The “Bigbee boats”&f=false

Here an OR mentioning them...

https://books.google.com/books?id=-...CAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=The “Bigbee boats”&f=false

 

[5fish]

By:Hayes Lowe
Date: 9/18/2001, 12:44 pm
In Response To: the Huntsville and the Tuscaloosa (Perry Hubbard)
Thanks! That site answers the questions regarding the Huntsville and the Tuscaloosa, as they became the floating batteries of the same names.

However, it only deepens the mystery of the character, disposition, and names of the Tombigbee built ironclads. I thought surely somebody knew, but this indicates that this information still remains unknown by the ironclad experts.

The site states:

Unnamed (Oven Bluff #1): Similar to Huntsville. One of the "Bigbee boats" on the Tombigbee River.

Unnamed (Oven Bluff #2): Similar to Huntsville. Another of the "Bigbee boats."

Unnamed (Oven Bluff #3): Possibly similar to Nashville. Another of the "Bigbee boats."

I wonder what is the source for the above information? It is clear from the O.R.'s that one of these was an ironclad sloop. Also, the measurements given in the O.R.'s indicate that the two ironclad gunships being built on the Tombigbee were larger than the Huntsville, but considerably smaller than the Nashville. I strongly believe the above information from the site is in error, at least based on O.R. correspondance.

The Nashville is recorded in the O.R. correspondance as being started in Selma, but finished in Mobile. This is in error on the site, where it is stated that the Nashville was built in Montgomery and completed in Mobile.

It is interesting to note from that site that the "Baltic" was once an ironclad, but was de-claded. For the record, this vessel was constructed at Mobile and surrendered at Nana Hubbard Bluff at the end if the war.

A link to the answers...

http://www.history-sites.com/cgi-bin/bbs62x/alcwmb/arch_config.pl?md=read;id=1370

page 3... link

https://books.google.com/books?id=p...CAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=The “Bigbee boats”&f=false

 

[rebelatsea]

From my limited knowledge about the area and my continuing research on shipyards in the Confederacy I have read that Oven Bluff was reactivated toward the end of the war. I also have a few questions from my neck of the woods but I'm not going to jam up the thread!

May I PM you?

Of course you can. I can't guarantee to know everything but I'll try !

 

[rebelatsea]

By:Hayes Lowe
Date: 9/18/2001, 12:44 pm
In Response To: the Huntsville and the Tuscaloosa (Perry Hubbard)
Thanks! That site answers the questions regarding the Huntsville and the Tuscaloosa, as they became the floating batteries of the same names.

However, it only deepens the mystery of the character, disposition, and names of the Tombigbee built ironclads. I thought surely somebody knew, but this indicates that this information still remains unknown by the ironclad experts.

The site states:

Unnamed (Oven Bluff #1): Similar to Huntsville. One of the "Bigbee boats" on the Tombigbee River.

Unnamed (Oven Bluff #2): Similar to Huntsville. Another of the "Bigbee boats."

Unnamed (Oven Bluff #3): Possibly similar to Nashville. Another of the "Bigbee boats."

I wonder what is the source for the above information? It is clear from the O.R.'s that one of these was an ironclad sloop. Also, the measurements given in the O.R.'s indicate that the two ironclad gunships being built on the Tombigbee were larger than the Huntsville, but considerably smaller than the Nashville. I strongly believe the above information from the site is in error, at least based on O.R. correspondance.

The Nashville is recorded in the O.R. correspondance as being started in Selma, but finished in Mobile. This is in error on the site, where it is stated that the Nashville was built in Montgomery and completed in Mobile.

It is interesting to note from that site that the "Baltic" was once an ironclad, but was de-claded. For the record, this vessel was constructed at Mobile and surrendered at Nana Hubbard Bluff at the end if the war.

A link to the answers...

http://www.history-sites.com/cgi-bin/bbs62x/alcwmb/arch_config.pl?md=read;id=1370

page 3... link

https://books.google.com/books?id=ptdfDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=The+"Bigbee+boats"&source=bl&ots=ABog1rdKYO&sig=6mqcoheqwhe295ZFKObvv9eB0Y8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR5qa0o83dAhUFxoMKHT9IDtYQ6AEwDXoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=The "Bigbee boats"&f=false

Baltic was constructed for the Southern Steamship Company, her armour was removed to provide part of CSS Nashville's protection. I covered CSS Nashville in my thread "THE CONFEDERATE NAVY'S SIDE WHEEL IRONCLADS".
The "Bigbee Boats were the starting subject of this thread above.
Huntsville and Tuscalloosa:

The Tuscaloosa type floating batteries

Although described and contracted for as ironclad floating batteries, the Tuscaloosa class vessels as planned had the configuration of ironclad steam sloops.
Huntsville and Tuscaloosa were discovered in 1983 at the confluence of the Mobile and Spanish rivers, and a project is now (2005) under way to raise Tuscaloosa.
General arrangement plans Tuscaloosa types by the author.
Dimensions 165ft OA x 45ft EX x 10.5ft D, 1,114 tons

CSS Huntsville was constructed more or less to the original plan, but CSS Tuscaloosa was constructed with a short octagonal casemate.

CSS Tuscaloosa

Type: Ironclad floating battery. Screw(s): two, 8ft diameter. Speed: 7 knots calculated, actual 3 knots
Dimensions: 165ft OA, x 45ft EX x 9ft D, 1,114 tons
Armour: 4ins iron, 22ins wood, 32degree slope, top & decks unknown
Guns: 1 – 7.5" Blakely MLR, 3 - 32pdr SB
Laid Down: 05/1862 Launched: 02/1863 Completed: 04/1863
Design: Joseph Pierce, Builder: Henry Bassett, Selma Ala.
History Never saw action (underpowered, actual speed 3- 4 knots), and undermanned, her 2-single cylinder inclined direct acting engines came from the river steamer Chewalha and were installed in January 1863
CSS Tuscaloosa as built. Plans by the author, after the archeological survey and a painting by Leon J. Fremaux. CS Engineers.

CSS Huntsville
Type: Ironclad floating battery. Screw(s): two, 8ft diameter. Speed: 7 knots calculated, 3 knots actual
Dimensions: 165ft (OA), x 45ft (EX) x 10ft 6 ins (DPH), 9ft (D), 1,114 tons
Armour: 4ins iron, 22ins wood, 32degree slope, top & decks unknown
Guns: 4 - 32pdr SB (Chronology), or 2 - 42pdr SB, 2 - 32pdr SB, (Still)
It is possible these guns were MLR not SB.
Laid Down: 05/1862 Launched: 07/ 02/1863 Completed: 04/1863
Design: Joseph Pierce Builder: Henry Bassett, Selma Ala.
History: Never saw action. Underpowered, with 2 single cylinder inclined direct acting engines taken from the river steamboat John C Calhoun, her actual speed was 4 knots, and undermanned. Sunk April 12 1865.
Intended armament: 1 – 6.4" MLR, 4 - 32pdr.

CSS Huntsville, as built. Plan by the author after Plans by the author, after the archeological survey and a sketch by Adm. Farragut.

============================================================================
Note: so far as I am aware the proposal to recover one or both vessels has not been acted on

 

[rebelatsea]

CSS Tuscaloosa:

 

[rebelatsea]

There are many unanswered questions about the evolution of these vessels which may never be answered.
For example:
1) What was the rational behind the spec for these two vessels?
2) What if any relationship did the method of construction used in these vessels have with Pearce's Mississippi?
They were diamond hull but not in the Porter Style.
3) Was Pearce trying out ideas for incorporation in CSS Tennessee, hence the difference in casemate between the two?
4) James H Warner had taken charge of the supply of machinery to the CSN by the time of these vessels.
Why / how / who got it so wrong with these two?.

 

[5fish]

Here is a story about Chattahoochee river and James H Warner... He arrives switched from paddle wheels to screws...

https://books.google.com/books?id=x2Uf7BKEwMQC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=confederate+James+H+Warner&source=bl&ots=vkHCnTC5Ru&sig=kesRjBsFam7Pl_rW9jbvA-2A8ro&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjd6POel9HdAhWE5oMKHYG-CjkQ6AEwDXoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=confederate James H Warner&f=false

CSS Chattahoochee remains and engine found...

The engines and lower portion of the after hull, from the Confederate steam gunboat CSS Chattahoochee. Photographed following recovery in the vicinity of Columbus, GA., circa the early or middle 1960s. Note the engines' horizontal cylinders, with the shafts of her twin screws beyond them. This machinery had been wrecked with sledgehammers when the ship was scuttled in December 1864.
US Naval History and Heritage Command photo # NH 55226. Courtesy of the Confederate Salvage Association.

Secret File at the National achieves on Confederate naval construction... ZB file...

https://books.google.com/books?id=LGf4J95UzHwC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=confederate+James+H+Warner&source=bl&ots=WaX1escJHp&sig=RyAwwki2ydOaDF15RnMjsDznvnk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjd6POel9HdAhWE5oMKHYG-CjkQ6AEwD3oECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=confederate James H Warner&f=false

James H. Warren last Day...

http://cvacwrt.tripod.com/warner.html

Better James H. Warren is a Ghost story now....

https://books.google.com/books?id=FZB2CQAAQBAJ&pg=PT53&dq=confederate+James+H+Warner&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjS0YGPm9HdAhVB2oMKHVubCOsQ6AEIUTAI#v=onepage&q=confederate James H Warner&f=false

 

[unionblue]

@rebelatsea,

Your posts always delight and surprise me.

The information and drawings about ships and ironclads of the period always interest me and tell me new facts I would have never known if you had not taken the time and trouble to post them here at our forum.

Thanks for helping an old 'ground pounder' learn something new.

Sincerely appreciate it.
Unionblue

 

[rebelatsea]

@rebelatsea,

Your posts always delight and surprise me.

The information and drawings about ships and ironclads of the period always interest me and tell me new facts I would have never known if you had not taken the time and trouble to post them here at our forum.

Thanks for helping an old 'ground pounder' learn something new.

Sincerely appreciate it.
Unionblue

Thank you very much. I enjoy sharing the information - and it also helps me to learn where I get things wrong !

 

[gary]

Great thread. I was unaware of these vessels.

 

[Bentonville]

Baltic was constructed for the Southern Steamship Company, her armour was removed to provide part of CSS Nashville's protection. I covered CSS Nashville in my thread "THE CONFEDERATE NAVY'S SIDE WHEEL IRONCLADS".
The "Bigbee Boats were the starting subject of this thread above.
Huntsville and Tuscalloosa:

The Tuscaloosa type floating batteries

Although described and contracted for as ironclad floating batteries, the Tuscaloosa class vessels as planned had the configuration of ironclad steam sloops.
Huntsville and Tuscaloosa were discovered in 1983 at the confluence of the Mobile and Spanish rivers, and a project is now (2005) under way to raise Tuscaloosa.
General arrangement plans Tuscaloosa types by the author.
Dimensions 165ft OA x 45ft EX x 10.5ft D, 1,114 tons

CSS Huntsville was constructed more or less to the original plan, but CSS Tuscaloosa was constructed with a short octagonal casemate.

CSS Tuscaloosa

Type: Ironclad floating battery. Screw(s): two, 8ft diameter. Speed: 7 knots calculated, actual 3 knots
Dimensions: 165ft OA, x 45ft EX x 9ft D, 1,114 tons
Armour: 4ins iron, 22ins wood, 32degree slope, top & decks unknown
Guns: 1 – 7.5" Blakely MLR, 3 - 32pdr SB
Laid Down: 05/1862 Launched: 02/1863 Completed: 04/1863
Design: Joseph Pierce, Builder: Henry Bassett, Selma Ala.
History Never saw action (underpowered, actual speed 3- 4 knots), and undermanned, her 2-single cylinder inclined direct acting engines came from the river steamer Chewalha and were installed in January 1863
CSS Tuscaloosa as built. Plans by the author, after the archeological survey and a painting by Leon J. Fremaux. CS Engineers.

CSS Huntsville
Type: Ironclad floating battery. Screw(s): two, 8ft diameter. Speed: 7 knots calculated, 3 knots actual
Dimensions: 165ft (OA), x 45ft (EX) x 10ft 6 ins (DPH), 9ft (D), 1,114 tons
Armour: 4ins iron, 22ins wood, 32degree slope, top & decks unknown
Guns: 4 - 32pdr SB (Chronology), or 2 - 42pdr SB, 2 - 32pdr SB, (Still)
It is possible these guns were MLR not SB.
Laid Down: 05/1862 Launched: 07/ 02/1863 Completed: 04/1863
Design: Joseph Pierce Builder: Henry Bassett, Selma Ala.
History: Never saw action. Underpowered, with 2 single cylinder inclined direct acting engines taken from the river steamboat John C Calhoun, her actual speed was 4 knots, and undermanned. Sunk April 12 1865.
Intended armament: 1 – 6.4" MLR, 4 - 32pdr.
View attachment 205008
CSS Huntsville, as built. Plan by the author after Plans by the author, after the archeological survey and a sketch by Adm. Farragut.

============================================================================
Note: so far as I am aware the proposal to recover one or both vessels has not been acted on

Considering the heir to the Oven Bluff/Ft. Jackson land is, in the harshest words of my mother, 'not very nice' I wouldn't be sure how to go about raising those vessels without some landfall.

 

[rebelatsea]

Since a lot of information I published my book on the CS ironclads a lot of new information has come to light and version 2 is in preparation ! Some of what I wrote is incorrect unfortunately but that is only to be expected. I was warned about the "ah but did you know brigade " !
There,are some corrections to the thread above.

1) The original plan for Huntsville & Tuscaloosa was by Henry Bassett, Joseph Pearce altered Tuscaloosa. When John L Porter made his visit to Alabama, he made his feeling clear about this pair., He also did not like what was being done to the Tennessee.

2) The Bigbee boats were designed by Sydney D Porter (John L's brother).

3) The two paddle gunboats, formerly thought to be versions of the screw Bigbees, were in fact "improved" versions of Henry Bassett's Morgan type with four heavy guns in the same layout as CSS Selma. John L Porter so liked the Morgans that he ordered two "improved" versions of the vessel.
The second 8 gun variant of which two were ordered and started were at Charleston Sc.