Thaddeus Stevens

[TobyVonKanobi]

Neither I nor anyone with a whit of knowledge or common sense denies this. It's not anything new or shocking. No one is defending it or ignoring it! It's all been hashed over on these forums in the past. You are a recent member, and I don't fault you for not knowing that. But, many of us have done a great deal of study on these topics -- we are not easily "shocked" by 150-year-old facts.

jno

Oh, great.

If trading contraband for cotton has been so widely discussed on this board I would be delighted if you would volunteer the names of some books that I might use to research the topic. I have had a difficult time finding them. I prefer books as opposed to academic journals merely because I do not have ready access to many such journals.

 

[TobyVonKanobi]

What I said was: "I seem to recall that some of the worst epithets that could be used against Northerners during the war were "Abolitionists" and "Black Republicans." That's highly suggestive. If the uproar was about tariffs, why bring the Abolitionists into it?"



Reading is fundamental. What did your response have to do with my question?

Your comment is like the Peace of God.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Your comment is like the Peace of God.

"Which passes all understanding" I laughed out loud.

The point I believe he's making is that the abolitionist tendencies of the Union forces, not the tariffist tendencies, seemed to be the salient point for the soldiers at the time.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Oh, well. I thought I was being clear.

 

[major bill]

I can admire Mr. Stevens for his commitment to supporting the rights of Native American, Jew, women and others. His belief in the equality of the races was before its time. It would appear the when Mr. Stevens said all men are created equal he truly meant it unlike many of his time. Mr. Stevens however was not saint and I can find some of his other traits disturbing.

Major Bill

 

[ole]

Got to say that this was a side of Thaddeus Stevens I knew nothing about. Many thanks to the contributors to this thread.

 

[unionblue]

Reading is fundamental.

Depends on what one chooses to read, and what not to read.

The practice of replying to posts without actually reading them is "simply wrong (not to mention impolite)."

But disagreeing with what one posts is not only 'polite' but expected on a forum.

It's the labeling of those who disagree with one's post by calling them 'impolite' is what is 'simply wrong.'

IMO,
Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

To All,

Faced with $200,000 in debts in 1842 from the poor performance of his Caledonia iron mill, friends suggested that Stevens declare bankruptcy.

"Yes I could," he said. "I may be forced to take advantage of the bankrupt laws in the next world, but that I will never do in this...there is no way out of such things except to pay the uttermost farthing."

-- Source: Great Leveler, by Thomas Frederick Woodley, pg. 141.

(Stevens was so outspoken in his condemnation of the Confederacy that Confederate general Jubal Early made a point of burning much of his iron business, at modern-day Caledonia State Park, to the ground during the Gettysburg Campaign.)

Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

A bit more:

A letter writer to Stevens said he had been told that Stevens was an unbeliever, to which Stevens replied:

"I have always been a firm believer in the Bible. He is a fool who disbelieves the existence of God as you say is charged on me. I also believe in the existence of a hell for the especial benefit of this slanderer."

-- Source: Letter to John T. Keagy, January 23, 1867. The Selected Papers of Thaddeus Stevens, Vol. 2, by Beverly Wilson and Holly Byers Ochoa, pg. 243.

Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

To All,

I think I will let Stevens speak for himself here against any attacks made upon him in this thread. Even 150 years later, the man can certainly defend himself against present and past attackers.

In a speech attacking the Compromise of 1850, Stevens accused his critics of attacking him personally, rather than showing the errors of his argument.

"To such remarks, there can be no reply by him who is not willing to place himself on a level with blackguards. I cannot enter that arena. I will leave the filth and the slime of Billingsgate to the fish-women, and to their worthy coadjutors, the gentlemen from Virginia [Mr. Millson] from North Carolina [Mr. Williams] and all that tribe. With them, I can have no controversy. When I want to combat with such opponents and such weapons, I can find them any day by entering the fish market, without defiling this Hall.

I beg those respectable fish-ladies, however, to understand that I do not include my colleagues from Bucks county [Pennsylvania] among those whom I deem fit to be their associates. I would not so degrade them.

There is, in the natural world, a little, spotted contemptible animal, which is armed by nature with a fetid, bolatile, penetrating virus, which so pollutes whoever attacks it, as to make him offensive to himself and all around him for a long time. Indeed, he is almost incapable of purification. Nothing sir, no insult shall provoke me to crush so filthy a beast....

...It is my purpose no where in these remarks to make personal reproaches; I entertain no ill-will toward any human being, nor any brute, that I know of, not even the skunk across the way to which I referred."

-- Source: Selected Papers of Thaddeus Stevens, Vol. 1, by Beverly Wilson Palmer and Holly Byers Ochoa, pg. 117 & 123.

Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

Another one that may be of interest.

Stevens often used Biblical references, such as the following incident where he referred to the story of Balaam, whose donkey warned him of impending danger.

A young politician in the Pennsylvania legislature seized the first opportunity to challenge Stevens, interrupting him to say, "Mr. Speaker, the gentleman from Adams neither sees nor understands the consequences of this bill."

Stevens turned toward him and slowly answered:

"Oh, very likely, very likely. Balaam's a*ss saw the angel when his master did not."

-- Source: Great Leveler, by Thomas Frederick Woodlye, pg. 136.

Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

More by Stevens.

One day in the 1830s in the Pennsylvania Assembly, a fellow representative spoke sharply against a measure Stevens had presented. Stevens took the floor and made a short speech on the merits of the bill, completely ignoring what the prior speaker had said. As he was about to sit down, he turned to glower upon his critic and said:

"Mr. Speaker, it will not be expected of me to notice the thing which has crawled into this House and adheres to one of the seats by its own slime."

-- Source: Great Leveler, by Thomas Frederick Woodley, pg. 10.

And from the same above source, pg. 201:

Stumping in one day just as the vote was about to be taken on a contested seat, Stevens inquired what was under consideration. "Oh," said a colleague, "we are just about to vote on the question of two d amn rascals fighting for a seat."

"Well." responded Stevens reaching for a ballot, "which is our d amn rascal?"

I think I am going to have to find this book. Might be the best read I will find in a LONG while.

Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

To All,

In July 1861 Congress passed the Crittenden-Johnson Resolution stating the limited war aim of restoring the Union while preserving slavery; Stevens helped repeal it in December (just four months later). In August 1861, he supported the Confiscation Act, which said owners would forfeit any slaves they allowed to help the Confederate war effort. By December he was the first congressional leader pushing for emancipation as a tool to weaken the rebellion. He called for total war on January 22, 1862:

"Let us not be deceived. Those who talk about peace in sixty days are shallow statesmen. The war will not end until the government shall more fully recognize the magnitude of the crisis; until they have discovered that this is an internecine war in which one party or the other must be reduced to hopeless feebleness and the power of further effort shall be utterly annihilated. It is a sad but true alternative. The South can never be reduced to that condition so long as the war is prosecuted on its present principles. The North with all its millions of people and its countless wealth can never conquer the South until a new mode of warfare is adopted. So long as these states are left the means of cultivating their fields through forced labor, you may expend the blood of thousands and billions of money year by year, without being any nearer the end, unless you reach it by your own submission and the ruin of the nation. Slavery gives the South a great advantage in time of war. They need not, and do not, withdraw a single hand from the cultivation of the soil. Every able-bodied white man can be spared for the army. The black man, without lifting a weapon, is the mainstay of the war. How, then, can the war be carried on so as to save the Union and constitutional liberty? Prejudices may be shocked, weak minds startled, weak nerves may tremble, but they must hear and adopt it. Universal emancipation must be proclaimed to all. Those who now furnish the means of war, but who are the natural enemies of slaveholders, must be made our allies. If the slaves no longer raised cotton and rice, tobacco and grain for the rebels, this war would cease in six months, even though the liberated slaves would not raise a hand against their masters. They would no longer produce the means by which they sustain the war."

-- Source: James Albert Woodburn, The Life of Thaddeus Stevens, pg. 178-179.

Unionblue

 

[matthew mckeon]

To All,

I think I will let Stevens speak for himself here against any attacks made upon him in this thread. Even 150 years later, the man can certainly defend himself against present and past attackers.

In a speech attacking the Compromise of 1850, Stevens accused his critics of attacking him personally, rather than showing the errors of his argument.

"To such remarks, there can be no reply by him who is not willing to place himself on a level with blackguards. I cannot enter that arena. I will leave the filth and the slime of Billingsgate to the fish-women, and to their worthy coadjutors, the gentlemen from Virginia [Mr. Millson] from North Carolina [Mr. Williams] and all that tribe. With them, I can have no controversy. When I want to combat with such opponents and such weapons, I can find them any day by entering the fish market, without defiling this Hall.

I beg those respectable fish-ladies, however, to understand that I do not include my colleagues from Bucks county [Pennsylvania] among those whom I deem fit to be their associates. I would not so degrade them.

There is, in the natural world, a little, spotted contemptible animal, which is armed by nature with a fetid, bolatile, penetrating virus, which so pollutes whoever attacks it, as to make him offensive to himself and all around him for a long time. Indeed, he is almost incapable of purification. Nothing sir, no insult shall provoke me to crush so filthy a beast....

...It is my purpose no where in these remarks to make personal reproaches; I entertain no ill-will toward any human being, nor any brute, that I know of, not even the skunk across the way to which I referred."

-- Source: Selected Papers of Thaddeus Stevens, Vol. 1, by Beverly Wilson Palmer and Holly Byers Ochoa, pg. 117 & 123.

Unionblue

Yeah, Stevens had a real issue with personal attacks. Not cricket at all apparently.

 

[matthew mckeon]

To All,

I think I will let Stevens speak for himself here against any attacks made upon him in this thread. Even 150 years later, the man can certainly defend himself against present and past attackers.

In a speech attacking the Compromise of 1850, Stevens accused his critics of attacking him personally, rather than showing the errors of his argument.

"To such remarks, there can be no reply by him who is not willing to place himself on a level with blackguards. I cannot enter that arena. I will leave the filth and the slime of Billingsgate to the fish-women, and to their worthy coadjutors, the gentlemen from Virginia [Mr. Millson] from North Carolina [Mr. Williams] and all that tribe. With them, I can have no controversy. When I want to combat with such opponents and such weapons, I can find them any day by entering the fish market, without defiling this Hall.

I beg those respectable fish-ladies, however, to understand that I do not include my colleagues from Bucks county [Pennsylvania] among those whom I deem fit to be their associates. I would not so degrade them.

There is, in the natural world, a little, spotted contemptible animal, which is armed by nature with a fetid, bolatile, penetrating virus, which so pollutes whoever attacks it, as to make him offensive to himself and all around him for a long time. Indeed, he is almost incapable of purification. Nothing sir, no insult shall provoke me to crush so filthy a beast....

...It is my purpose no where in these remarks to make personal reproaches; I entertain no ill-will toward any human being, nor any brute, that I know of, not even the skunk across the way to which I referred."

-- Source: Selected Papers of Thaddeus Stevens, Vol. 1, by Beverly Wilson Palmer and Holly Byers Ochoa, pg. 117 & 123.

Unionblue

Yeah, Stevens had a real issue with personal attacks. Not cricket at all apparently.

 

[unionblue]

The Death of Thaddeus Stevens.

Thaddeus Stevens died at midnight on August 11, 1868, in Washington, D.C., less than three months after the acquittal of President Johnson by the Senate. Steven's coffin lay in state inside the Capitol Rotunda, flanked by a Black honor guard (the Butler Zouaves from the District of Columbia).

Twenty thousand people, one half of whom were African American, attended his funeral in Lancaster, P.A. He chose to be buried in the Shriner-Concord Cemetery, because it was the only cemetery that would accept people without regard to race.

Stevens wrote the inscription on his headstone that reads:

"I repose in this quiet and secluded spot, not from any natural preference for solitude, but finding other cemeteries limited as to race, by charter rules, I have chosen this that I might illustrate in my death the principles which I advocated through a long life, equality of man before his Creator."

Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

Thaddeus Stevens legacy.

Stevens dreamed of a socially just world, where unearned privilege did not exist. He believed from his personal experience that being different or having a different perspective can enrich society. He believed that differences among people should not be feared or oppressed but celebrated. In his will he left $50,000 to establish Stevens, a school for the relief and refuge of homeless, indigent orphans.

"They shall be carefully educated in the various branches of English education and all industrial trades and pursuits. No preference shall be shown on account of race or color in their admission or treatment. Neither poor Germans, Irish, or Mahometan, nor any others on account of their race or religion of their parents, shall be excluded. They shall be fed at the same table."

This original bequest has now evolved into Thaddeus Stevens College of Technology. The college continually strives to provide underprivileged individuals with opportunities and to create an environment in which individual differences are valued and nurtured.

In Washington, D.C., the Thaddeus Stevens Elementary School was built in 1868 as one of the first publicly funded schools for black children. President Jimmy Carter's daughter, Amy Carter, attended the school.

Unionblue

 

[James B White]

Yeah, Stevens had a real issue with personal attacks. Not cricket at all apparently.

Apparently they were okay when he was the one doing them, though.

 

[TobyVonKanobi]

"Which passes all understanding" I laughed out loud.

The point I believe he's making is that the abolitionist tendencies of the Union forces, not the tariffist tendencies, seemed to be the salient point for the soldiers at the time.

Oh, okay. But I only mentioned tariffs to point out that Stevens selfishly benefitted from quickly helping to raise them to 49% early in 1861. Evidently Jenkins did not read, and respond to, what I wrote.

 

[rpkennedy]

Oh, okay. But I only mentioned tariffs to point out that Stevens selfishly benefitted from quickly helping to raise them to 49% early in 1861. Evidently Jenkins did not read, and respond to, what I wrote.

Do we know for a fact that he personally benefitted from this tariff increase? As ole pointed out, it is on record that his ironworks was near bankruptcy for much of its existence and I don't see it making scads of money after 1861. And, as has also been pointed out, this tariff increase was very popular among his constituents.

R