Technology query.... Double Enders

[Republican Blues]

Been trying to find the answer and not sure where to look so I thought I would ask this august body..

Double ended gunboats... how did they switch from the normal stern rudders to the bow rudders??? did the work independant of each other or in concert??

 

[Carronade]

I'm surprised none of the experts have chimed in. My guess would be that each rudder was controlled from its respective pilot house, and the one not in use would be secured in the centerline position. AFAIK they didn't have anything like the rudder angle indicator on modern ships, so they'd have to estimate when the unused rudder was centered - or maybe just have someone look over the bow/stern.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Sorry, I've been out of the loop... will check into this this afternoon. The question actually never occurred to me!

 

[rebelatsea]

I'm surprised none of the experts have chimed in. My guess would be that each rudder was controlled from its respective pilot house, and the one not in use would be secured in the centerline position. AFAIK they didn't have anything like the rudder angle indicator on modern ships, so they'd have to estimate when the unused rudder was centered - or maybe just have someone look over the bow/stern.

I didn't " chime in" because I don't know either !

 

[DaveBrt]

This is not a certain answer, but I'll bet its not too far off:

"Once at the destination the captain would move from the ship's wheel at the "outward trip" bow end of the ferry to a second wheel at the other end, a deckhand would pin the outward trip rudder and unpin the "return trip" rudder, just as Walter describes. The return trip was in effect done entirely in reverse."

This was for Auckland ferries, but no date is given at http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2036.0

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I would absolutely expect that any system that had been in use on the converted ferryboat-gunboats would be in use on the purpose-built double-enders, since that's what inspired the latter. The pinning/unpinning sounds reasonable, but I'll look into it.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Hm. My usual "go-to" guy, Donald L. Canney, doesn't say word one about the issue in either The Old Steam Navy or Lincoln's Navy. Gotta keep digging...

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Haven't found anything yet. It's either a question not many people have asked, or something that seemed so obvious to people at the time that they didn't bother writing about it. I posed the question on a different (navy-specific) board; we'll see if anyone else has any ideas about it.

I need to find a ferryboat expert.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Mind you, I did see where there was at least one "double ender" gunboat that had a mechanism for actually withdrawing or raising the forward rudder so it wouldn't cause problems. But that was pretty obviously a one-shot innovation.

 

[Republican Blues]

Thanks for the Answers guys.. seems to me we may have the great Naval mystery LOL

 

[kfranklin]

Thanks for the Answers guys.. seems to me we may have the great Naval mystery LOL

Well as a lover of 1 thing more the the civil war (wooden boats) I know from modern double enders, i.e. proas, that if both rudders are fixed to the "bow/stern" and non removable, they are pinned in place when no longer in use. This in effect has them acting as a large cutwater when not acting as a rudder.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

How is this pinning done?

 

[kfranklin]

How is this pinning done?

A literal drop in pin (about a foot long iron spike through the tiller into a deck frame)! The only issue though is that this was on small craft, I can't imagine it holding on a large ferry!

 

[kfranklin]

Also I was looking through so stuff on modern ferry design, the rudders in the current bow ARE generally locked midships, although in some ferries both sets of rudders are used during docking.

 

[Republican Blues]

That makes a lot of sense.... ALOT of sense... Thank Mr Franklin.. for some reason I was over thinking it bet and had some really complicated idea, when a drop pin makes much more sense. No doubt very similar to the pin on a pivot carriage...

 

[kfranklin]

That makes a lot of sense.... ALOT of sense... Thank Mr Franklin.. for some reason I was over thinking it bet and had some really complicated idea, when a drop pin makes much more sense. No doubt very similar to the pin on a pivot carriage...

Well honestly I'm not sure on the drop pin. I've only seen it on ships with less then a 40' LOA, but then again I've never seen the steering gear of a larger double ender.