Sword Pommel

[Minnesotamatt]

I found this sword pommel metal detecting a while back in a lake in Minnesota. I was told it may be from a civil war sword. I saw many different varieties online from different makers and countries. I was just wondering if you guys could help me narrow down anything. Just interested, we don't find many things like this here.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum from South Florida. I'm not a sword expert but there are several on here, sure you will get an answer soon.

 

[James N.]

... I found this sword pommel metal detecting a while back in a lake in Minnesota. I was told it may be from a civil war sword. I saw many different varieties online from different makers and countries. I was just wondering if you guys could help me narrow down anything. Just interested, we don't find many things like this here.

Welcome to the forums! What you have is the pommel from a M. 1850 Foot Officer's or Staff and Field Officer's sword; here's what the whole swords looked like: https://civilwartalk.com/threads/regulation-officers-swords.111513/

 

[zburkett]

Welcome & great find. Yes it could be off a Civil War sword or saber. Similar pommels were used much later and some are still used today so it will be hard to be specific. Where it was found might give you some clue.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[mofederal]

Welcome and hello from Southeast Missouri. That is a nice find.

 

[AndyHall]

James N. and @zburkett are both on the right track. The present-day Marine Corps non-commissioned officer sword is of a very similar pattern to the M1850 Foot Officer's Sword. It might take a real specialist to distinguish them.

 

[Kip124thNY]

Welcome from New Jersey.

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. I agree with my fellow collectors above. Nice Find. The rest might not be to far away.

 

[Mrs. V]

Welcome from the shores of Lake Erie!

 

[Patrick H]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. I agree with my fellow collectors above. Nice Find. The rest might not be to far away.

This was my thought exactly. Get back out there! In the meantime, welcome from central Missouri.

 

[William G Hendry]

Welcome from Ont. Canada.

 

[James N.]

James N. and @zburkett are both on the right track. The present-day Marine Corps non-commissioned officer sword is of a very similar pattern to the M1850 Foot Officer's Sword. It might take a real specialist to distinguish them.

View attachment 152660

Good call, Andy - except that as I recall the USMC non-commissioned officers during the Civil War were wearing the same M.1840 NCO Sword as their counterparts in the army, making it less likely that this pommel came from one of those.

 

[Minnesotamatt]

Thanks for all your help. I believe the pommel is pretty old. My town was founded by civil war veterans in the late 1860's and hosted reinactments until the 1890's. I've found many 1880's and 90's coins and items in and around my lake. And yes I've been looking for the rest of the sword.

 

[tstg58]

You can keep looking, but it's possible I have the rest of that sword. As a kid we lived down the street from the town dump. Sunday nights was our prime time to go dump picking... As they say one man's trash - is another man's (or kid's) treasure. One of those treasured finds for me was a sword. I just recently did some online searches for the sword which I found at the town dump in Andover, MA over 50 years ago. In that search I found this picture...

which is a match to mine...

However as you can see mine was missing the handle and pommel, so at the time I made a handle for it as best a kid could do without the internet to actually research what it should look like.

The sword itself has some pitting on it with one side looking partly smoother than the rest, like it was underwater for a while with the end stuck in the mud. So I figure it's possible over 50 years ago someone from Minnesota found the main part of the sword, then moved to Andover, and when he passed, if he had a collection the family may have sold his collection but tossed this one, since it didn't have a handle. From the picture of the sword on auction, the pommel is the same design as your find...

It's possible!

 

[JOHN42768]

You can keep looking, but it's possible I have the rest of that sword. As a kid we lived down the street from the town dump. Sunday nights was our prime time to go dump picking... As they say one man's trash - is another man's (or kid's) treasure. One of those treasured finds for me was a sword. I just recently did some online searches for the sword which I found at the town dump in Andover, MA over 50 years ago. In that search I found this picture...
View attachment 421107
which is a match to mine...
View attachment 421108However as you can see mine was missing the handle and pommel, so at the time I made a handle for it as best a kid could do without the internet to actually research what it should look like.

The sword itself has some pitting on it with one side looking partly smoother than the rest, like it was underwater for a while with the end stuck in the mud. So I figure it's possible over 50 years ago someone from Minnesota found the main part of the sword, then moved to Andover, and when he passed, if he had a collection the family may have sold his collection but tossed this one, since it didn't have a handle. From the picture of the sword on auction, the pommel is the same design as your find...
View attachment 421106
It's possible!

Welcome, enjoy

 

[James N.]

You can keep looking, but it's possible I have the rest of that sword. As a kid we lived down the street from the town dump. Sunday nights was our prime time to go dump picking... As they say one man's trash - is another man's (or kid's) treasure. One of those treasured finds for me was a sword. I just recently did some online searches for the sword which I found at the town dump in Andover, MA over 50 years ago. In that search I found this picture...
View attachment 421107
which is a match to mine...
View attachment 421108However as you can see mine was missing the handle and pommel, so at the time I made a handle for it as best a kid could do without the internet to actually research what it should look like.

The sword itself has some pitting on it with one side looking partly smoother than the rest, like it was underwater for a while with the end stuck in the mud. So I figure it's possible over 50 years ago someone from Minnesota found the main part of the sword, then moved to Andover, and when he passed, if he had a collection the family may have sold his collection but tossed this one, since it didn't have a handle. From the picture of the sword on auction, the pommel is the same design as your find...
View attachment 421106
It's possible!

The two-branch guard on yours marks it as an original or a copy of the French M.1821 infantry officer's sword. Although they were replaced as regulation patterns by the M.1845 (copied in the U.S. as our M.1850) and therefore obsolete, they or copies of them were nevertheless imported for our Civil War. They are slightly shorter than the M.1845/M.1850's. IF it's a French original the blade should have an inscription on the back of the blade denoting when and where it was made; the copies were often made in Solingen, Germany, sword-making capital of Europe.

Welcome to the forums!

 

[Glen_C]

I believe you mean the French mle 1845/55, not 1840. Their 1845 went from leather to steel scabbards in 1855.

 

[Glen_C]

The USMC 1859 nco sword was just like the m1850 foot officer sword but with a leather grip and the scabbard had a frog button on the top mount. The USMC officer sword had a shagreen grip and two ring scabbard.

 

[James N.]

I believe you mean the French mle 1845/55, not 1840. Their 1845 went from leather to steel scabbards in 1855.

Thanks; corrected!