Sword handles.

[major bill]

Some sword handles at the Museum. One is not a Civil War sword. Our blade experts will pick out the non Civil War sword in a heart beat.

 

[Bonedaddy]

Nice.

 

[Conquerordie]

I love the simplicity of the Eagle Head swords.

 

[Cavalier]

Not any kind of sword expert, (or any other kind of expert either!), but I believe the sword with the Eagle Head pommel might be War of 1812. And if I'm not mistaken a museum in Michigan has a sword belonging to an American officer from that era. If that's the one I would love to see it in person.

John

 

[Sundance]

Oh, I love that silver hilt. The bone/ivory grip eagle head must predate the Civil War by 30 years or so.

 

[major bill]

The eagle head sword is said to have belonged to Lewis Cass and is said to be from the War of 1812. One of my issues is that when General Hull surrendered Detroit to the British he include Colonel Cass who was out in the field. Cass claims he was so upset he broke his sword rather than give it to a British officer. So if this is Lewis Cass's sword form the War of 1812, it must be his second sword from that War.

I do wonder if this was a dress sword Cass wore as territorial governor war commander of the Michigan militia after the War of 1812..

 

[R. Porter]

The eagle head sword is said to have belonged to Lewis Cass and is said to be from the War of 1812. One of my issues is that when General Hull surrendered Detroit to the British he include Colonel Cass who was out in the field. Cass claims he was so upset he broke his sword rather than give it to a British officer. So if this is Lewis Cass's sword form the War of 1812, it must be his second sword from that War.

I do wonder if this was a dress sword Cass wore as territorial governor war commander of the Michigan militia after the War of 1812..

Hmmm… I have two or three swords with blades that have been broken and repaired, maybe more. One or two have been put back together in a way that they couldn't be used as weapons again. Another (or more) has been welded back together and you wouldn't notice at first that it had been damaged. I have wondered why the swords were put back together and why some might be reuseable while others are not.

 

[Glen_C]

The grip on the eagle puts it to the 1840s.

 

[Cavalier]

@Glen_C Could you specify what it is about the grip on the eagle that puts it in the 1840s. I trying to learn as much as I can about this topic.

John

 

[Glen_C]

Hi John

If really interested in eagles, they are sometimes hard to place in time but there are traits that change decade to decade. Bill did a good job in sharing a blurry image but the grip is clear enough. The carving of the grip is in the style of the 1840s, while the pommel is of an earlier pattern. English made and made of leftovers with modern hubcaps. A VW Beetle, as it were. This one was produced well after 1820.

Hartzler authored titles, Mowbray, Tuite, Rankin, Flayderman/Mowbray, Furr, Bezdek, Hamilton and other books covering American eaglehead pommels are a start. A general book list might begin with Peterson's old tesrtament on the American Sword.

The pommel and guard here appear to be from the 1800ish starts but the bird is ever so slightly different and shrinking a little. Known as a Ketland style based on those 1800ish facts. Ketland was a general arms and hardware exporter, selling goods from England. Fast forward some decades and the bird is still around.

There were plenty of eagle types and many grip stylings. The books will pave the way. Nuts like me might have a clipboard like this
This is my latest upload a couple of years ago. Eagles 4.0 may have an updated book draft but I don't know that I'll ever deign to stand on the shoulders of giants. I archive and study. I collect.

Eagles - Google Drive

drive.google.com

Clear photos of the entire sword might be a treat but I see what I need to see in reaching my conclusion.

Cheers
GC

Here is an 1800ish Ketland type from my collection.

Here is another grip of the 1840s period, with a more contemporary build and eagle. One of my newest swords

 

[Cavalier]

@Glen_C Thank you very much! This is most helpful! I never expected all this. I have been trying to get my hands on a few books but only have one so far.

I can't wait to get a chance to dive more deeply into this.

I'm very grateful for all this, John

 

[R. Porter]

Hi John

If really interested in eagles, they are sometimes hard to place in time but there are traits that change decade to decade. Bill did a good job in sharing a blurry image but the grip is clear enough. The carving of the grip is in the style of the 1840s, while the pommel is of an earlier pattern. English made and made of leftovers with modern hubcaps. A VW Beetle, as it were. This one was produced well after 1820.

Hartzler authored titles, Mowbray, Tuite, Rankin, Flayderman/Mowbray, Furr, Bezdek, Hamilton and other books covering American eaglehead pommels are a start. A general book list might begin with Peterson's old tesrtament on the American Sword.

The pommel and guard here appear to be from the 1800ish starts but the bird is ever so slightly different and shrinking a little. Known as a Ketland style based on those 1800ish facts. Ketland was a general arms and hardware exporter, selling goods from England. Fast forward some decades and the bird is still around.

There were plenty of eagle types and many grip stylings. The books will pave the way. Nuts like me might have a clipboard like this
This is my latest upload a couple of years ago. Eagles 4.0 may have an updated book draft but I don't know that I'll ever deign to stand on the shoulders of giants. I archive and study. I collect.

Eagles - Google Drive

drive.google.com

Clear photos of the entire sword might be a treat but I see what I need to see in reaching my conclusion.

Cheers
GC

Here is an 1800ish Ketland type from my collection.
View attachment 483037



Here is another grip of the 1840s period, with a more contemporary build and eagle. One of my newest swords View attachment 483033

This is wonderful!

I like the way you described Peterson's book.

I believe the giants put their shoulders out there for us to stand on when they published. I think that's the way things work.

I'm going to be late to work because I've been looking at your sword pictures.

 

[Glen_C]

You are welcome folks. I check in from time to time. Keep in mind that the gdrive gallery is just a scratch pad and some of it will make little sense. I began with my three stooges. Note the difference in the Ketland type head. It is the short beak later casting. The aqua background in comparison.

Moe as the Ketland type, Larry in the middle played as the Osborn type, Bolton playing Curly in the basement, discoverin;

Cheers
GC

 

[Patrick H]

They're beautiful, but I can't make a meaningful comment beyond that. Love the ivory handles. Coming back to say that the presentation sword of Gen. Sterling Price has one of the most interesting grips I've seen. Many of you know it is carved like a corn cob.

 

[MRB1863]

When it comes to styling, these put a damper on my handed down "Starr" sword as it is quite plain in comparison.

 

[R. Porter]

Starrs have not been pushed as Civil War weapons in the past the way Virginia Manufactory swords have been, yet I am beginning to get the feeling that they played a role in the early war on both sides; what's the story with yours?

 

[Cavalier]

I'll never be able to watch the Three Stooges again without those swords coming to mind. Great post!

John

 

[Glen_C]

When it comes to styling, these put a damper on my handed down "Starr" sword as it is quite plain in comparison.View attachment 483143

I've an 1818 saber and an 1818 nco

The 1818 models have a fuller and no scabbard throat. The 1812-1813 have a scabbard throat but no fuller The 1818 nco swords similarly sans throat. I found one at giveaway.

Starrs have not been pushed as Civil War weapons in the past the way Virginia Manufactory swords have been, yet I am beginning to get the feeling that they played a role in the early war on both sides; what's the story with yours?

The Hicks book for Starr is worth finding. I found an old library bound copy. The old ASoAC article on the Virginia Manufactory is a great read

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2011-B104-Virginia-Manufactory-of-Arms-The-Origina.pdf

There is even a Starrr short/medium

beak crested Ketland type. An internet friend adopted one I watched.

I'll never be able to watch the Three Stooges again without those swords coming to mind. Great post!

John

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk....

They're beautiful, but I can't make a meaningful comment beyond that. Love the ivory handles. Coming back to say that the presentation sword of Gen. Sterling Price has one of the most interesting grips I've seen. Many of you know it is carved like a corn cob.

Thanks for mentioning Pappy's presentation sword. I'd love to find his service sword from the Mexican/American war. Ivory vs bone can be tough to spot but Curly's grip is bone. My first eagle Bolton made in Birmingham. About 1800

vs my last eagle in, a Bolton with Ivory

I am slowing down and my last sword may be the end of adoptions/ My last sword purchase a year ago. 1770s short backsword/spadroon. Thomas Gill

Cheers guys
GC

 

[major bill]

Lewos Cass sword, taken through glass so some glare. Appropriate sword for a governor?

 

[Cavalier]

I don't know what's appropriate for a govornor either but it certainly is pretty. Thanks for the photos.

John