Springfield M1861 dated 1863 flat cartouche

[RSMorris]

Trying to figure out the cartouches on M1861 1863 dated Springfield. It has two but they are barely legible. i have the book by Pate and Daum but it seems to be a little inconsistent. Does anyone have a Springfield M1861 dated 1863 could post a pic of the cartouches or if you know what they are just please let me know. The name Erskine S. Allin keeps popping up but on page 10 of the book where he is listed it does not show him inspecting M1861 dated 1863 Springfield Muskets.... but if you go to page 100 there is a Chap named MTH who did inspect these but then there is a note that his cartouche is in front of ESA. Here is a pic of mine the founded off rectangle is barely visible and the oval cartouche is barely visible.

 

[scooter748driver]

I checked my 1863 dated M1863 type ! to see what cartouches are present, but mine are lighter than yours so I can't be much help. You're looks like a fine rifle from what I can see!

 

[RSMorris]

I checked my 1863 dated M1863 type ! to see what cartouches are present, but mine are lighter than yours so I can't be much help. You're looks like a fine rifle from what I can see!

It's one of the cut down ones after the war. But has the right markings and was probably in the war. Just trying to figure out these cartouches.

 

[JOHN42768]

I think the coating of varnish is making it to difficult to decipher

 

[RSMorris]

I think the coating of varnish is making it to difficult to decipher

I'm sure it is. I can make out they are there just not what the signatures are. Can see a couple of loops so I think if I see some clear stamps I may be able to figure it out.

 

[Conquerordie]

Take your pic and play around with the exposure and light. Most cell phones have these features built in now. It might take away glare or add shadow to places you don't see and could make it more legible.

 

[JimW]

Sometimes a flashlight held almost parallel to the flat helps light it

 

[RSMorris]

Sometimes a flashlight held almost parallel to the flat helps light it

Yes, I've done all that. I have one of those super duper military flashlights that you can see a booger in a gnats nose. That is how I am able to see what I can.

 

[UCVRelics]

Yes, I've done all that. I have one of those super duper military flashlights that you can see a booger in a gnats nose. That is how I am able to see what I can.

Try a thin piece of paper and pencil and do a rub or sprinkle some baby powder (lightly) and rub it in. It will come of with a little water.

 

[RSMorris]

Try a thin piece of paper and pencil and do a rub or sprinkle some baby powder (lightly) and rub it in. It will come of with a little water.

Thanks will try both!

 

[RicM]

On my 1864 Type 2 which is factually 100% all original, the cartouche on the first picture is my rifle. The second pic I grabbed a while back from another site of what the cortouche on the Springfield, where it shows the initials of the inspectors stamps. I'm busy with work now and will try back later if I can find that source it did give who the names were and additional info.
Update: The cortouche ESA is the inspectors initials of "Esrkin S Allen"

 

[RicM]

As far as trying to bring out the inprint, With mine I didnt see mine at all. I removed the stock carefully and gentle washed the stock with Murphys Soap and a sponge added some Dawn to the water. I wanted to get any dirt, waxes, or polishes off the stock that built up over the decades that may have filled in the imprint. I let the stock air dry so it got sort of that dried out wood look. Used another sponge with mineral spirits gentle damp over the stock. I was able to bring out what is shown in the photo 1. I was lucky I guess. Not saying it works with everyone, but it worked with mine.

 

[RSMorris]

The upper cartouche is William P. Taylor. Its funny Erskine. S. Allin in the Daum/Pate book is not listed as M1861 inspector but his cartouches are everywhere on M1861's

 

[RSMorris]

As far as trying to bring out the inprint, With mine I didnt see mine at all. I removed the stock carefully and gentle washed the stock with Murphys Soap and a sponge added some Dawn to the water. I wanted to get any dirt, waxes, or polishes off the stock that built up over the decades that may have filled in the imprint. I let the stock air dry so it got sort of that dried out wood look. Used another sponge with mineral spirits gentle damp over the stock. I was able to bring out what is shown in the photo 1. I was lucky I guess. Not saying it works with everyone, but it worked with mine.

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[RicM]

RSMorris maybe "Erskin Taylor" stamped the later years M1863's and the early year produced M1864's.

 

[RSMorris]

RSMorris maybe "Erskin Taylor" stamped the later years M1863's and the early year produced M1864's.

According to the Pate/Daum book he inspected Springfield M1847 Artillery musketoon dated 1847 on lock and barrel. .... and Springfield M1863 Type 2 rifle-musket dated 1864 on counterpane behind "FWS"... I mean obviously he inspected M1861's beacause there are a load of them out there with his cartouche. I believe the rear one on mine is E.S.A. Just seems odd this book that is very detailed would not have listed him as an inspector on M1861's. I have blood shooting out of my eyes just looking at this stuff.