Muzzleldrs Smoothbore Springfields in Union Regiments in 1864?

Cdoug96

Corporal
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Dec 22, 2016
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Michigan, United States
My great-great-great grandfather was in the 9th New York Heavy Artillery regiment in Company B, and while trying to determine what weapon they were using I found an ordinance report dated June 30, 1864 which said they were armed with Smooth-bored Muskets, Springfield model 1842 (.69 caliber)! This made me do a double-take. I had always thought that the Union Army was well-equipped at this point in the war and was genuinely shocked that any of the regiments in the battle line had this type of equipment. Does anybody know why they were so equipped? Were they ever issued new rifles as replacements? I simply can't imagine that they were still using these rifles at Appomattox.

Note: Found the ordinance report here: http://www.beyondthecrater.com/reso...nf/009th-new-york-heavy-artillery/#fn-27913-5
 
My great-great-great grandfather was in the 9th New York Heavy Artillery regiment in Company B, and while trying to determine what weapon they were using I found an ordinance report dated June 30, 1864 which said they were armed with Smooth-bored Muskets, Springfield model 1842 (.69 caliber)! This made me do a double-take. I had always thought that the Union Army was well-equipped at this point in the war and was genuinely shocked that any of the regiments in the battle line had this type of equipment. Does anybody know why they were so equipped? Were they ever issued new rifles as replacements? I simply can't imagine that they were still using these rifles at Appomattox.

Note: Found the ordinance report here: http://www.beyondthecrater.com/reso...nf/009th-new-york-heavy-artillery/#fn-27913-5
I do not know about this case. However, a smoothbore firing buck 'n' ball or shot is a better weapon for defending guns than a rifle.
 
They were being used as infantry at this point. Forgot to say that earlier. They had Cold Harbor as their first battle.

The heavy artillery regiments had been trained as garrison troops so they would have been pretty far down the list for top-tier equipment (although, in fairness, some front-line troops preferred smoothbores to rifles) so I'm not really surprised that they were still using those muskets at that time. It would be interesting to see if they were given rifles during Petersburg, however.

Ryan
 
The heavy artillery regiments had been trained as garrison troops so they would have been pretty far down the list for top-tier equipment (although, in fairness, some front-line troops preferred smoothbores to rifles) so I'm not really surprised that they were still using those muskets at that time. It would be interesting to see if they were given rifles during Petersburg, however.

Ryan
I read somewhere that as units were prepared to move south to link up with the AOTP they were issued 1861/1863 Springfields
 
The heavy artillery regiments had been trained as garrison troops so they would have been pretty far down the list for top-tier equipment (although, in fairness, some front-line troops preferred smoothbores to rifles) so I'm not really surprised that they were still using those muskets at that time. It would be interesting to see if they were given rifles during Petersburg, however.

Ryan

Maybe this particular unit was on the wrong side of some bad blood between the higher ups
 
Nah this unit was definitely on the good side of higher ups. They were known as Seward's pets, and at one time commanded by Col. William Seward Jr (son of Secretary of State Seward). My great great great great Uncle was in Company F. I am reading the regimental history right now and remember the author, a veteran of the regiment, mentioning his Harpers Ferry Smooth bore. Which is the M1842. Smoothbores started to loose favor as the war dragged on but were still used quite a bit.
 
My great-great-great grandfather was in the 9th New York Heavy Artillery regiment in Company B, and while trying to determine what weapon they were using I found an ordinance report dated June 30, 1864 which said they were armed with Smooth-bored Muskets, Springfield model 1842 (.69 caliber)! This made me do a double-take. I had always thought that the Union Army was well-equipped at this point in the war and was genuinely shocked that any of the regiments in the battle line had this type of equipment. Does anybody know why they were so equipped? Were they ever issued new rifles as replacements? I simply can't imagine that they were still using these rifles at Appomattox.

Note: Found the ordinance report here: http://www.beyondthecrater.com/reso...nf/009th-new-york-heavy-artillery/#fn-27913-5
The fact that they were heavy artillery converted to infantry per orders from Gen. Grant may explain why they were carrying smoothbores, quickly issued whatever was available at the beginning of the overland campaign. Most Union infantry by '64 were carrying rifled muskets, however some individual regiments chose to keep the 69 cal. "buck and ball" believing they were a better weapon, or at least hitting more targets with one shot. In the Irish Brigade, my memory has failed me if the entire brigade continued to carry smoothbores, but at least one regiment, the 69th New York (I think) carried them at least through the end of '63.
 
The fact that they were heavy artillery converted to infantry per orders from Gen. Grant may explain why they were carrying smoothbores, quickly issued whatever was available at the beginning of the overland campaign. Most Union infantry by '64 were carrying rifled muskets, however some individual regiments chose to keep the 69 cal. "buck and ball" believing they were a better weapon, or at least hitting more targets with one shot. In the Irish Brigade, my memory has failed me if the entire brigade continued to carry smoothbores, but at least one regiment, the 69th New York (I think) carried them at least through the end of '63.

Most of the heavy artillery regiments had some infantry weapons since they were both the artillery and infantry defenders at their posts but I don't know if they took these weapons with them when they went to the front.

As for the Irish Brigade, IIRC, the 28th Massachusetts carried rifles but the New York regiments and the 116th Pennsylvania were equipped with .69 caliber muskets.

Ryan
 
Nah this unit was definitely on the good side of higher ups. They were known as Seward's pets, and at one time commanded by Col. William Seward Jr (son of Secretary of State Seward). My great great great great Uncle was in Company F. I am reading the regimental history right now and remember the author, a veteran of the regiment, mentioning his Harpers Ferry Smooth bore. Which is the M1842. Smoothbores started to loose favor as the war dragged on but were still used quite a bit.
I think the history actually outright says that Sec. Seward frequently visited the regiment and it also says that President Lincoln visited the regiment at least once (where supposedly one trooper managed to get his hands on a tobacco chew that Lincoln spit out, but some of the other men were determined to tease the poor guy and mixed their own in with it). Perhaps the officers liked the '42s and decided to use them until the end?
 
The first parts of my book are full of references to Seward visiting and many reviews from the higher ups. Parts of Company B were recruited from my town, Captain Fish and his two sons are buried a few miles from me. I went last month through the cemetery and visited his grave along with some 111th NY guys. Pretty neat cemetery. It claims to have the first post Civil war memorial in the country.
 
My great-great-great grandfather was in the 9th New York Heavy Artillery regiment in Company B, and while trying to determine what weapon they were using I found an ordinance report dated June 30, 1864 which said they were armed with Smooth-bored Muskets, Springfield model 1842 (.69 caliber)! This made me do a double-take. I had always thought that the Union Army was well-equipped at this point in the war and was genuinely shocked that any of the regiments in the battle line had this type of equipment. Does anybody know why they were so equipped? Were they ever issued new rifles as replacements? I simply can't imagine that they were still using these rifles at Appomattox.

Note: Found the ordinance report here: http://www.beyondthecrater.com/reso...nf/009th-new-york-heavy-artillery/#fn-27913-5
Yeah, with regards to the American Civil War, the rifle musket usually gets all the "press", but the fact is that .69 smooth-bored muskets were used from before 1861 on through 1865 by units from both the North and South, and with good results. It has been argued by several that the tactics used and the distances between massed troops during engagements actually negated the need for a rifle musket. I am not speaking of sharp shooting or what we would today call "sniping", for that I would take a Sharps or Whitworth any day, but for line infantry use, yes, I see the logic behind a smooth bore; ease of loading, slower to foul, use of buck n ball at closer ranges.
 
When Grant started moving South he pulled a lot of the Heavyl Artillery units that had been guarding Washington and used them as line infantry. I suspect that 9th New York was one of those units and they took their muskets with them.
 
The 4th New Jersey was surrounded & captured at Gaines Mill. When they returned to duty, there were no rifled muskets available to rearm the regiment. Much to their disgust, they were issued .69 cal smoothbores. Not only were they short ranged & wildly inaccurate, but they did about as much damage to the shooter as to its victim. After a successful participation in the South Mountain action, the regiment gratefully replaced the smoothbores with Enfield rifles discarded by retreating Confederates.
The 12th New Jersey, about 400 men strong, was armed with smoothbores at Gettysburg. The 12th was very active, closing to within 100 yards where their buck & ball would become effective & captured 90 Confederates.
I know several folks who like to argue the advantage of the smoothbore musket over rifles. However, I have never found an instance of regiments discarding their rifles for smoothbores. That settles the question for me; after all, who knows better than C.W. veterans?
At Stones River 60% of Confederate & 40% of Union regiments were armed with smoothbores. I carry a .69 cal. ball found on the battlefield to show visitors the various bullets fired during the battle. After the battle, Rosecrans rationalized his weaponry & discarded the smoothbores & other exotica that some regiments were armed with .
 
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I know several folks who like to argue the advantage of the smoothbore musket over rifles. However, I have never found an instance of regiments discarding their rifles for smoothbores.
(...)
who knows better than C.W. veterans?
First of all there are cases of units sticking with their smoothbores.
Also, Iam arguing that they are better in the hands of men who are poorly trained in marksmanship. If the men can hit a line at 200 yards, then the rifled firearm is better.

And how often do you find soldiers who openly admit that they are poorly trained?
It require a basic understanding of ballistics and marksmanship to know that you are poor at it. Something you would not have, with no training.

Another factor it the age and quality of the arms. Many of the smoothbores where old and used guns.
Most people would take a new gun over an old one.

Also, there is absolutely no guaranty that the veterans knows best. Just watch interviews with wwii veterans and the amount of myths and errors they tell. (like how it took 5 Shermans to kill a Tiger? There where 5 Sherman in a platoon. So you would never send anything less. If the platoon was at full strength... and the US was very good at keeping the tank units at close to full strength. And the number of times a Sherman actually engaged a Tiger was very limited.)
 
I know several folks who like to argue the advantage of the smoothbore musket over rifles. However, I have never found an instance of regiments discarding their rifles for smoothbores. That settles the question for me; after all, who knows better than C.W. veterans?
Lots and lots of people. Certainly there are several instances of regiments passing up the chance to re-equip with rifles.

If lots of people in the early war started with smoothbores (which is true, we know this) and some fraction of them declined to re-equip with rifles (also true - Irish Brigade, Texas Brigade) then the people in those regiments would be actively preferring the smoothbore over the rifle.



Now, as to the actual properties of the weapon. Here's the thing - at the usual firefight range of the Civil War (which was about 100 yards averaged over the whole war) the smoothbore is actually not a very inferior weapon. A perfectly aimed M1842 musket will hit a torso (2 foot target) 100% of the time at 150 yards, and what that means is that in most Civil War firefights the limiting factor on the performance of the weapon is the performance of the man, not the performance of the long arm - if you aim perfectly you will hit whether you have a rifle or a smoothbore. At that range the heavier bullet of the smoothbore does more damage and is thus a superior weapon, while buck-and-ball gives chances for light wounds where a rifle would have scored no wound (and is thus also superior).

At longer range, the rifles become superior - and the Enfield becomes superior to the Springfield.


The next question is - how could a veteran judge the quality of his weapon? How can he tell if he needs the greater range accuracy of the rifle over the smoothbore?
The answer is that he has no way to tell. With typical ACW hit rates (about 0.5% per round) it's quite possible for a Union soldier to have fought at Antietam, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Gettysburg and the Wilderness without ever having hit a man - and because he's firing as part of volley fire, he has no way to tell that, or indeed if he's hit more than a dozen people.
The only way to determine how good you are with a long ranged weapon is to do practice with it, which is to say to train with it. But the Union pretty much never practiced firing, and indeed in November 1864 Warren reported that his command (5th Corps) contained nearly four thousand men who had never so much as fired a musket:


'The command... consisted, first, of the First Division... 4,707 strong, of which 1,247 were ignorant of the manual, and 2,803 had never fired off a musket. Second, of the Second Division... 4,704 strong, of which 104 were ignorant of the manual, and 812 had never fired off a musket. Third, of two brigades of the Third Division... of which 298 were ignorant of the manual and 298 had never fired off a musket.'

The only way these men have to judge whether a weapon is good or bad is how modern or "cool" it is, and a weapon from 1863 is clearly more modern and "cool" than a weapon from 1842. But that's all they have to go on.
 

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