Small Bore Enfield?

[oiffirefighter]

what Enfield was considered small bore?

The battalion was armed with long-range, small-bore Enfield rifles, and used a long English-made cartridge. We never used any ammunition made by the Confederate Government. There were, besides, two globe-sighted rifles for use on special occasions, which were valuable additions to our armament. I have frequently fired these with entirely satisfactory results.

From post talking about Mahone's sharpshooters

 

[Bentonville]

what Enfield was considered small bore?

The battalion was armed with long-range, small-bore Enfield rifles, and used a long English-made cartridge. We never used any ammunition made by the Confederate Government. There were, besides, two globe-sighted rifles for use on special occasions, which were valuable additions to our armament. I have frequently fired these with entirely satisfactory results.

From post talking about Mahone's sharpshooters

I'll tell ya if you wanna go shooting. (J/k as I have no idea how to answer that.)

 

[JackADriscoll]

what Enfield was considered small bore?

The battalion was armed with long-range, small-bore Enfield rifles, and used a long English-made cartridge. We never used any ammunition made by the Confederate Government. There were, besides, two globe-sighted rifles for use on special occasions, which were valuable additions to our armament. I have frequently fired these with entirely satisfactory results.

From post talking about Mahone's sharpshooters

Whitworth?

 

[Bentonville]

Whitworth?

I thought those to be a majority round bore with some special models with hexagonal bores. Like 'super-rifling', no?

 

[JackADriscoll]

I thought those to be a majority round bore with some special models with hexagonal bores. Like 'super-rifling', no?

Hexagon rounds were British made. The round type were home spun. Maybe we need some more context?

 

[JackADriscoll]

Here is a good PDF on sharpshooters rifles. I guess it could also be a Kerr rifle

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2013-B107-Sharpshooter-Weapons-in-the-American-Civ.pdf

 

[oiffirefighter]

Whitworth?

was thinking that and was suggested elsewhere.

 

[thomas aagaard]

what Enfield was considered small bore?

The battalion was armed with long-range, small-bore Enfield rifles, and used a long English-made cartridge. We never used any ammunition made by the Confederate Government. There were, besides, two globe-sighted rifles for use on special occasions, which were valuable additions to our armament. I have frequently fired these with entirely satisfactory results.

From post talking about Mahone's sharpshooters

Smoothbore muskets used to be caliber 69, 70 or even 71.
Compared to that, the enfiled in cal 57.7 was seen as small-bore.

So the point is that they are using a smallbore rifle that got a long range. And not a musket or a older converted 69cal rifled muskete,
Not that they are using some special enfield that is even smaller and usual.

And in addition they got two special weapons that is used on special occasions.

 

[JackADriscoll]

Smoothbore muskets used to be caliber 69, 70 or even 71.
Compared to that, the enfiled in cal 57.7 was seen as small-bore.

So the point is that they are using a smallbore rifle that got a long range. And not a musket or a older converted 69cal rifled muskete,
Not that they are using some special enfield that is even smaller and usual.

And in addition they got two special weapons that is used on special occasions.

ah the most obvious answer being the probable right answer gets me again.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

what Enfield was considered small bore?

From what I understand.

The earlier Pattern 1853 Enfield long rifle had three bands and a 39-inch barrel.

In the following years, Enfield introduced several models of the short rifle, with all of these having 33-inch barrels and either two or three bands (depending on the model).

According to Fred Ray in 'Shock Troops of the Confederacy' (at pp 272-73), both kinds of Enfield (short and long versions) were very effective over a long range. Apparently, however, the short Enfields were preferred by Confederate sharpshooters because these were lighter and handier.

 

[thomas aagaard]

ah the most obvious answer being the probable right answer gets me again.

Know the feeling. Sometimes you think about something a lot and get stuck... where someone else just point out the obvious solution

The first british riflemusket, the P1851 Minierifle was also cal 70.
Conservatism and the idea that they should be able to use musket round balls if needed.

So compared to that the P1853 was really small bore.

And when one remembers that the Brown Bess was the same caliber... We are talking 150 years + of the same caliber of bullet having been used.
Compered to that the Enfield was almost heresy...

The earlier Pattern 1853 Enfield long rifle had three bands and a 39-inch barrel.

In the following years, Enfield introduced several models of the short rifle, with all of these having 33-inch barrels and either two or three bands (depending on the model).

you are confusing the bore (the caliber) with the lenght. ;-)

 

[Nathan Stuart]

you are confusing the bore = the caliber with the lenght. ;-)

Are you saying the term, 'short rifle', refers to the 'bore' not the 'length of the barrel'?

 

[thomas aagaard]

Are you saying the term, 'short rifle', refers to the 'bore' not the 'length of the barrel'?

You are the one bringing rifle length into a question of bore size.

All variations of the P1853 enfield where of the same bore. But they where made with different barrel length and different rifling.

(one exeption might be the smoothbore model made for use by indian troops. Not sure about if that was the same caliber)

 

[Nathan Stuart]

You are the one bringing rifle length into a question of bore size.

All variations of the P1853 enfield where of the same bore. But they where made with different barrel length and different rifling.

(one exeption might be the smoothbore model made for use by indian troops. Not sure about if that was the same caliber)

Understand the distinction. My mistake - I misread/misinterpreted the OP term to mean 'small length' not 'small bore'.

Your point is made. Thank you.

 

[Old Soldier]

Small bore? Only if compared to the P1851 Minie (.702"), the French Minie (.69") or older muskets. The Enfield caliber was .577" which is smaller (just) than the US .58". By the end of the decade, the service Snider had kept that calibre, but the NRA(GB) was using .451" due to increased accuracy at longer ranges.

BTW -Why change the rifle within 2 years? The P1851 was a 'first' and suffered from a number of problems which led to technical inprovements and was replaced by the the P1853 fairly quickly, due in part to the greater recoil compared to a smoothbore musket.

 

[oiffirefighter]

Know the feeling. Sometimes you think about something a lot and get stuck... where someone else just point out the obvious solution

The first british riflemusket, the P1851 Minierifle was also cal 70.
Conservatism and the idea that they should be able to use musket round balls if needed.

So compared to that the P1853 was really small bore.

And when one remembers that the Brown Bess was the same caliber... We are talking 150 years + of the same caliber of bullet having been used.
Compered to that the Enfield was almost heresy...

you are confusing the bore (the caliber) with the lenght. ;-)

No, i am thinking alon the lines of the prjectile diameter. In my mind anything .45 cal or smaller is smallbore.

 

[Old Soldier]

No, i am thinking alon the lines of the prjectile diameter. In my mind anything .45 cal or smaller is smallbore.

I am afraid is is not what WE think, but what the people of the time thought. (BTW - smallbore to me is .22 or less!)

 

[Bentonville]

No, i am thinking alon the lines of the prjectile diameter. In my mind anything .45 cal or smaller is smallbore.

.45 is my 'baby bear' of calibers.

 

[67th Tigers]

There were .451 Enfields being made, and these were the "small bore"weapons. Colonel Hay had ordered a pattern be made to compare with the Whitworth. It shot as well as the Whitworth, but was rejected for fouling too easily, and the Whitworth formally adopted in 1862. These weapons did make it into rebel hands and were used as sharpshooter weapons.

 

[thomas aagaard]

There were .451 Enfields being made, and these were the "small bore"weapons. Colonel Hay had ordered a pattern be made to compare with the Whitworth. It shot as well as the Whitworth, but was rejected for fouling too easily, and the Whitworth formally adopted in 1862. These weapons did make it into rebel hands and were used as sharpshooter weapons.

where can I read more about them? never heard this before...