Slavery, Lost Cause and Gettysburg

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Buckeye Bill

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* Anniversary of the Battle of Westport, Missouri.

The Battle of Westport, sometimes referred to as the "Gettysburg of the West," was fought on October 23, 1864, in modern Kansas City, Missouri, during the American Civil War. Federal forces under Major General Samuel R. Curtis decisively defeated an outnumbered Confederate force under Major General Sterling Price. This engagement was the turning point of Price's Missouri Expedition, forcing his army to retreat. The battle ended the last major Confederate offensive west of the Mississippi River, and for the remainder of the war the United States Army maintained solid control over most of Missouri. This battle was one of the largest to be fought west of the Mississippi River, with over 30,000 men engaged.

* Wikipedia

IMG_20161023_090259.jpg
 

Patrick H

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I see you've had 16 views as of right now, but this is the first response. Well, as Westport has often been called the Gettysburg of the West and as dozens and dozens of pages get written on these boards beating on slavery and the Lost Cause, and as today is the history of Westport, this seems like an interesting way to draw some attention to it.
 

Buckeye Bill

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One starts a thread about Slavery and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Lost Cause and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Battle of Gettysburg and this message board blows up.

I thought this message board was bigger than this......

Bill
 
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bdtex

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One starts a thread about Slavery and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Lost Cause and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Battle of Gettysburg and this message board blows up.

I thought this message board was bigger than this......

Bill
Don't be discouraged. Lotta folks like me who are relatively new CW buffs come to the subject and this forum only having heard of slavery as the cause of the war and having heard only of the major battles in the Eastern Theater and maybe a little about Vicksburg, Atlanta and the Monitor and the Merrimack.

2.5 years ago,I couldn't have told you what states Shiloh and Chickamauga were in even though I had heard about them. I couldn't have told you anything about Sabine Pass or Mansfield even though both are within easy driving distance from my home. I coulda told ya about Franklin only because I read a book about it 12-15 years ago.

Of the stack of books I have now waiting to be read,about 1/2 are about topics I'd never heard of before joining this forum.
 

E_just_E

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One starts a thread about Slavery and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Lost Cause and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Battle of Gettysburg and this message board blows up.

I thought this message board was bigger than this......

Bill
Do you really want the blowing up that happens in the Slavery and Lost Cause threats with the same old, trite, close-minded, and subjective arguments to happen everywhere? I am glad that it is not :wink:

People have opinions about things they know or feel strongly about them. And people feel strongly about being "right" or "wrong" (as if something like that a. would affect the outcome of what happened or b. make something that happened not to happen or c. win them the award of righteousness or something.)

People usually do not have much of an opinion about things they do not know. Like the battle of Westport, and I think that these posts that talk about places and things that are not part of the same trite arguments are the refreshing parts of this board where we all come to learn.
 
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leftyhunter

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One starts a thread about Slavery and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Lost Cause and this message board blows up.

One starts a thread about the Battle of Gettysburg and this message board blows up.

I thought this message board was bigger than this......

Per T.J.Stiles "Jesse James last rebel of the Civil War" in the summer of 1864 Missouri was aflame and Price saw an opportunity to invade Missouri and gain new recruits and nsybe sieze territory. By the Fall of 1864 the Confederate cause was in a bad way and Price wanted a Confederate victory to boost morale.
Unfortunately for Price General Rosecrans the Commander of Union forces in Missouri had good intelligence and knew Price was gong to invade.
Rosecrans was able to form emergency 90 day regiments including black ones to oppose Price. Rosecrans was able to fet the cooperation of neighboring states to form 90 day regiments with the conspicuous exception of Kansas.
Kansas troops were previously expeled from Missouri but now Missouri needed them. Eventually Kansas troops were sent to Missouri. So where USV's from other states.
Prices men spent wsy to much time attacking Iornton and allowed the Union defenders to escape.
While Price had some early sucess his invasion was a debacle. Many Confederate guerrillas were killed or fled to other states.
Leftyhunter
 
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Borderruffian

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That's easy just like Lee at Gettysburg Price made a desperate hail Mary pass to revive Confederate fortunes.
Leftyhunter
Ummm...In a way. Price's grand [lan in 64 was put to the coals at Fort Davidson , early in the Raid when a smaller force pretty much fought him to a stand still and caused him to change directions away from his objective of St Louis and go west. Prices army was made up in large prt of Arkansas Conscripts who were more intrested in drinking and pillaging and turned a goodly number of supporters from Price. Not that Old Pap was great or even good General, them or previously he failed to take Jeff City which he probably could have, and that was a secondary objective. His Grand liberation turned into a large raid of little consequence in reality, except to dash southern hopes in the state. The 64 raid may have had more sucess under another overall commander and it may have taken some pressure off the Eastern Armies but it never really had a good chance,

Gettysburg is different in that Lee did have a realativly strong force, other things got in Lees way , IMHO one was Lee himself.

So calling Westport the "Gettysburg" of the west is just saying it was the turning point in the war in Missouri not a comparison of the two engagements or the two CG's.
 

civilken

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thank you for the post that was one incredible battle and rarely mention. But certainly an important part of the Civil War that should be remembered.
 
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Patrick H

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But why was it thought to be the Gettysburg of the western war? Is it because some vital turning point occurred or was it fought in a similar way, on similar ground Or had casualties as catastrophic for both sides?
It was a matter of what occurred--a turning point. Price hoped to stir things up with his invasion, and he partially succeeded. But he was really beaten earlier. His objective was to have been St. Louis. When he couldn't do that he just moved westward until he ran out of state. The Westport fight beat him for good and forced him to limp back to Arkansas. Truth be told, he was already moving south when this fight occurred. But be sure to read Borderruffian's post right under your own because he always has good insights about Missouri's war.
 

Buckeye Bill

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My minor rant was all about activity on threads related to Slavery, Lost Cause and Gettysburg. Slavery and Lost Cause threads are pure poop storms. Gettysburg threads seem to generate more activity than other threads about various battles, especially the Trans-Mississippi battles. My thread was 100% frustration.....

Bill
 
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Buckeye Bill

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Don't be discouraged. Lotta folks like me who are relatively new CW buffs come to the subject and this forum only having heard of slavery as the cause of the war and having heard only of the major battles in the Eastern Theater and maybe a little about Vicksburg, Atlanta and the Monitor and the Merrimack.

2.5 years ago,I couldn't have told you what states Shiloh and Chickamauga were in even though I had heard about them. I couldn't have told you anything about Sabine Pass or Mansfield even though both are within easy driving distance from my home. I coulda told ya about Franklin only because I read a book about it 12-15 years ago.

Of the stack of books I have now waiting to be read,about 1/2 are about topics I'd never heard of before joining this forum.
I was discouraged when I started this thread. And I am still discouraged....

My pill to swallow!

Bill
 
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leftyhunter

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Ummm...In a way. Price's grand [lan in 64 was put to the coals at Fort Davidson , early in the Raid when a smaller force pretty much fought him to a stand still and caused him to change directions away from his objective of St Louis and go west. Prices army was made up in large prt of Arkansas Conscripts who were more intrested in drinking and pillaging and turned a goodly number of supporters from Price. Not that Old Pap was great or even good General, them or previously he failed to take Jeff City which he probably could have, and that was a secondary objective. His Grand liberation turned into a large raid of little consequence in reality, except to dash southern hopes in the state. The 64 raid may have had more sucess under another overall commander and it may have taken some pressure off the Eastern Armies but it never really had a good chance,

Gettysburg is different in that Lee did have a realativly strong force, other things got in Lees way , IMHO one was Lee himself.

So calling Westport the "Gettysburg" of the west is just saying it was the turning point in the war in Missouri not a comparison of the two engagements or the two CG's.
Good points. None the less Westport lin common with Gettysburg was a hail Mary pass.
True Price and his men were not up to the same standards as Lee and the AnV.
Rosecrans and Curtis were competent generals they had advanced intel, more men and in many case better more experienced men. It wasn't a fair fight but it wasn't the Union Armies job to provide one.
Leftyhunter
 

Northern Light

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I was discouraged when I started this thread. And I am still discouraged....

My pill to swallow!

Bill
I thought it was just me thinking everyone was kind of grumpy lately! I just bow out of threads when they get snarly. Life is to short and there are more interesting threads to read, like this one about a battle I had not heard of before! Thanks for another great tour, Bill!
 

bdtex

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I was discouraged when I started this thread. And I am still discouraged....

My pill to swallow!

Bill
Well....what I was trying to say was please don't stop posting on the things you like to post about.

I avoid the slavery and lost cause stuff for the most part in this forum because I'm not really interested in discussing it here and I don't know much about Gettysburg yet to post a lot about it. Some of my OPs don't draw a lot of discussion either but that's ok. I post about what interests me and my own personal CW current events.
 
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Buckeye Bill

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I thought it was just me thinking everyone was kind of grumpy lately! I just bow out of threads when they get snarly. Life is to short and there are more interesting threads to read, like this one about a battle I had not heard of before! Thanks for another great tour, Bill!
I did suffer a case of the goo when I posted this thread. I just read another thread about Slavery and the Lost Cause and instantly became frustrated. It passed.....

Bill
 

Buckeye Bill

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Well....what I was trying to say was please don't stop posting on the things you like to post about.

I avoid the slavery and lost cause stuff for the most part in this forum because I'm not really interested in discussing it here and I don't know much about Gettysburg yet to post a lot about it. Some of my OPs don't draw a lot of discussion either but that's ok. I post about what interests me and my own personal CW current events.
Thanks!!!

Bill
 
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