Slave Labor vs. Factory Labor

[matthew mckeon]

I'm starting a new thread on this to keep the thread on the decline of slavery in the North on the rails.

 

[matthew mckeon]

My take:

1. 19th century factories had harsh conditions. So the workers banded together to form unions, or used their votes to regulate industry. The Irish immigrants huddling in their slums and generally ruining good Protestant property values were running the cities in the next generation, their states in the generation after that, and the country by 1960.

2. And could marry, have families. No one was hit with a cowhide whip. No iron collars with long spikes. No branding. No being sold.

There were tremendous abuses in factory labor. My grandmother stitched trousers in a sweat shop, and never recalled those as the good old days. But all bad things are not the same bad thing. Slave labor was different in kind, as well as degree from factory work. No factory worker ran away from her loom to become a slave.

 

[MattL]

Factory workers had rights, slaves didn't.

 

[leftyhunter]

Factory workers could quit and move on slaves no so much much. If a factory owner took excessive liberties with a female worker her dad , family and or significant other could buy a firearm and well not good for the owner taking excessive liberties. Slaves just had to grin and bear it.
Leftyhunter

 

[major bill]

Free workers could be fired by the boss. Salves can be tortured to death by the boss. Not much of a choice here.

 

[major bill]

It seems we have danced this dance before.

1. Not many immigrants either North or South sold themselves or the family into slavery. They must have believed free labor was preferred.
2. Very few free blacks in the North gave up their free labor jobs and sold themselves into slavery.
3. The number of Southern free backs who sold their children in to slavery so their children could have a better life was limited.
4. Few blacks after the Civil War sold themselves or the families in to slavery in places like Brazil.
5. Not many poor white Southerners would have sold their children in to slavery to get them out of free labor work.

Either all the above were not very smart, or they knew free labor was better than slavery.

 

[Drew]

[QUOTE
My take:

1. 19th century factories had harsh conditions. So the workers banded together to form unions, or used their votes to regulate industry. The Irish immigrants huddling in their slums and generally ruining good Protestant property values were running the cities in the next generation, their states in the generation after that, and the country by 1960.

][/QUOTE]

Nice story. Can you tell us how the immigrants were running things and formed unions in the meantime?

I'd simply like to know how many of them died in the process.

There are lots of stories, let's get to the bottom of it. Great thread.

 

[Karen Lips]

It seems we have danced this dance before.

1. Not many immigrants either North or South sold themselves or the family into slavery. They must have believed free labor was preferred.
2. Very few free blacks in the North gave up their free labor jobs and sold themselves into slavery.
3. The number of Southern free backs who sold their children in to slavery so their children could have a better life was limited.
4. Few blacks after the Civil War sold themselves or the families in to slavery in places like Brazil.
5. Not many poor white Southerners would have sold their children in to slavery to get them out of free labor work.

Either all the above were not very smart, or they knew free labor was better than slavery.

I have a question concerning #3. Did free Southern blacks actually sell their children into slavery so they could have "better life"?

 

[major bill]

There are a very few cases of freed slaves selling themselves back into to slavery. I would assume some brought their children with them and the childbed would then be slaves as well.

 

[leftyhunter]

Factory workers children received free education vs it was a felony to teach slaves to read let alone receive an education. The children of factory workers can and did obtain much better paying careers then their parents.
On the other hand factory workers could be drafted into the combat arms during the Civil War. Slaves could only be forced into manual labor which was somewhat safer then combat.
Factory workers could buy booze slaves not so much other then the few who could work for wages after their slave tasks wete done.
So far Factory workers score is two s one for the slaves.
Leftyhunter

 

[major bill]

Free labors might hope to marry someone whit a bit of money and improve their lives. At least some women working in factories or men working in factories married someone with a farm or with a bit of money . This was not possible for slaves.

 

[Burning Billy]

Neither was a bed of roses, but being enslaved was easily the worst of the two.

Though often exploited, the factory worker was a citizen or a resident alien with legal protections not granted the enslaved.

The factory worker couldn't be legally raped or flogged for example, as many slaves were, nor did the factory worker need to worry about his family being taken away from him and sold like chattel to another factory owner.

The factory worker also had a choice in employment, and could potentially find better work elsewhere, or get a promotion.

Anyone who argues slavery was better, or at least no worse...is simply lying to whitewash the Confederacy's sins. If given a choice between being a white factory worker in the 19th Century or an enslaved African farm hand, none would choose to be enslaved.

 

[Schwallanscher]

Anyone who argues slavery was better, or at least no worse...is simply lying to whitewash the Confederacy's sins. If given a choice between being a white factory worker in the 19th Century or an enslaved African farm hand, none would choose to be enslaved.

pretty much sums it up

 

[huskerblitz]

Neither was a bed of roses, but being enslaved was easily the worst of the two.

Though often exploited, the factory worker was a citizen or a resident alien with legal protections not granted the enslaved.

The factory worker couldn't be legally raped or flogged for example, as many slaves were, nor did the factory worker need to worry about his family being taken away from him and sold like chattel to another factory owner.

The factory worker also had a choice in employment, and could potentially find better work elsewhere, or get a promotion.

Anyone who argues slavery was better, or at least no worse...is simply lying to whitewash the Confederacy's sins. If given a choice between being a white factory worker in the 19th Century or an enslaved African farm hand, none would choose to be enslaved.

Agreed, but too often if the topic of factory life comes up people attempt to bury with, "Well at least they weren't a slave" while completely ignoring the topic. It has been done numerous times here.

 

[Dave Wilma]

Industrial unions, e.g., coal miners and steel workers, did not rise until after the ACW. Dissatisfied factory workers—often referred to as mechanics—could leave.

Slave labor was cheaper in an agricultural setting, but still came at a cost, a workforce to police the slaves, the constant fear of slave uprising, and supporting slaves when there was no work. In the industrial setting this still applied, particularly employment during a lack of orders.

There was also a general opposition not so much to slavery, but to the slaves, African slaves. When slavery was under consideration in the new state of California the sentiment was, "we don't want slavery and we don't want the slaves."

 

[Lost Cause]

Agreed, but too often if the topic of factory life comes up people attempt to bury with, "Well at least they weren't a slave" while completely ignoring the topic. It has been done numerous times here.

Pretty much the point. The hardships of factory, or mining, agriculture work etc. were a case by case basis. Hard to imagine a further quality of life when life expectancy was often low.

For instance, a child laborer working in the machine industry 12-16 hours a day was supposed to be able to take advantage of free education on their off time in pursuit of a better dream? Assuming they weren't to become maimed or worse? Fortunately after the war, labor reform legislation was brought forth.

This, of course, does not negate the horrors and hardships of slavery. There are countless threads discussing this. In terms of the OP, History should be about examination, not one upping.

 

[major bill]

Both free labor workers and enslaved workers perform a verity of tasks. This makes it difficult to properly discuss either one let alone and very difficult to compare them. There is a big difference between a coal miner, factory worker, and hired hand working on a farm. Also there would be a difference between a slave on a sugar cane plantation and a slave who worked in a plantation house as a cook.

 

[Bruce Vail]

Both free labor and slave labor have the advantage of being disposable. Free worker can be fired or dismissed, and slaves can be sold. Free labor has the advantage of not requiring the upfront capital expense (slave purchase price) required in slavery. So free labor is basically cheaper than slave labor.

 

[Mild53]

I am glad to see such rational explanations. Its hard for me not to react emotionally. Slavery vs Factory Labor is, was and always will be a silly comparison. Working in a factory was oppressive, but slavery was in-human.

 

[Old_Glory]

I'm starting a new thread on this to keep the thread on the decline of slavery in the North on the rails.

I do not understand the purpose or point of this thread. Are you saying the North was more moral than the South in this situation therefore everything was fine?

I asked you in another thread to show how slaves were profitable in the North, I saw no reply. The answer is they were not. That is the only reason slavery did not exist in the North.

That is why there were abused factory workers in the North and abused slaves in the South. If you want to say one was abused more than the other, I'm not sure what the point of it is knowing that slaves were unprofitable in the North.