Shiloh Rifle...

[Jobe Holiday]

In the realm of Civil War arms collecting, the Saxon/Dresden Rifle musket has always carried a very high price tag.
J.

 

[Private Watkins]

College Hill Arsenal sold one last week, sans the rear sight, for around $1800 or so. They are an uncommon find, but there just isn't the demand for non typical imports. Apart from Enfields (and other English arms), and Lorenz's to a lesser degree, European arms can typically be purchased very resonably.

That's in line with the auction house's pre-auction estimated price of $1,400 - $2,250.

 

[Private Watkins]

A couple of years ago, however, Heritage sold one for over $11,000 that had a carving IDing it as a captured Confederate musket from the field at Sharpsburg.

Do you have any pics of that one...?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Do you have any pics of that one...?

Here is the link to the auction. You have to have an account to see the selling prices.
http://historical.ha.com/itm/milita...63-72240.s?ic4=OtherResults-SampleItem-071515

 

[Private Watkins]

Pretty cool... thanks for the link.

$11,352 in 2007...

Confederate Musket Captured At Antietam. A single shot percussion muzzleloader, .58 caliber, 37" barrel, 53" overall length, four bands, adjustable rear sight, checkered hammer, "PJ MALHERBE & CIE / ALIEGE" and "JR" under crown on lockplate, serial numbered "794" in five places, "M" inspector mark on both sides of breech and another crown over "JR" on left side of the breech. Attic condition with deep, natural patina on both wooden and metal elements. This imported Belgian musket was certainly carried by a Confederate in that its walnut stock is carved with the following: "Antietam Sept. 17th 1862 A reclict (sp) of the rebellion Secured by Lieut B C Wilson 107th Reg NYV." Lieutenant Wilson of Elmira, New York enlisted in Co. "I" on August 9, 1862, only to muster out on December 21 of the same year.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

ILLINOIS
FIFTY-SECOND INFANTRY
(Three Years)
Fifty-second Infantry. - Cols., Isaac G. Wilson, Thomas W.
Sweeny, John S. Wilcox; Lieut.-Cols., John S. Wilcox, Edwin A.
Bowen, Jerome D. Davis ; Majs., Henry Stark, Edwin A. Bowen,
Wesley Boyd, Albert C. Perry. This regiment was organized at
Geneva, Kane county, in Nov., 1801, and was mustered into the
U. S. service on Nov. 19. On the 28th it moved with 945 men to
St. Louis, Mo., and went into quarters at Benton barracks. The
regiment took a prominent part in the battle of Shiloh, losing
170 in killed, wounded and missing, and it was also engaged in
the siege of Corinth. It was heavily engaged in the action at
the latter place in the following October its loss being 70 in
killed and wounded. In December it met the enemy near Bear
creek, Ala., drove him l5 miles, and then returned to Corinth.
In April, 1863, it met the enemy at Town creek, Ala., skir-
mished with him on the 27th, gained possession of the railroad
bridge the next day, effected a crossing and drove him 3 miles.
On Jan. 9, 1864, three-fourths of the regiment re-enlisted and
it was mustered as a veteran organization. It started for Il-
linois, arriving at Chicago on Jan. 17, and then proceeded to
Geneva, where it was furloughed on the 20th. During the At-
lanta campaign the regiment participated in the battles of
Snake Creek gap, Resaca, Lay's ferry, Rome cross-roads, Dallas,
Kennesaw mountain, Nickajack creek, Decatur, before Atlanta and
at Jonesboro, and finally went into camp at East Point. It
marched with its division to Savannah, participated in the cam-
paign of the Carolinas, was present at the battle of Benton-
ville, and arrived at Goldsboro March 24. It then marched via
Richmond and Alexandria, was in the grand review at Washington,
and was mustered out on July 5, 1865.

Source: The Union Army, vol. 3

 

[tbuckley]

The majority of foreign made shoulder arms I have looked at were adequate arms. I wonder how many of the complaints about imported arms were made just because they weren't new Springfields.

 

[johan_steele]

The majority of foreign made shoulder arms I have looked at were adequate arms. I wonder how many of the complaints about imported arms were made just because they weren't new Springfields.

If most enlisted today to fight a war... They hand out an M1 instead of the latest M4 with red dot n laser I expect there would be complaints about the age of the weapon.

I really think that was a large part of it. Most locks had a date of manufacture & if older than the user I'd expect gripes.

I've had the chance to shoot quite a few original foreign arms and generally found them adequate.

 

[ole]

Just a fleeting thought: Who would carve a commoration of a battle on his gunstock?

Smacks of fraud. "I carried this at X battle." Really?

 

[Banjo Pete]

Re: Ole's comment. Sorry, haven't figured out how to "quote" yet.

Anyhow, seems that many of these men realized from the get-go that they were involved in an event of huge significance.

The post CW adulation and influence of CW veterans in organizations such as the GAR and political life in general may have given many veterans pause to reflect and document what they had done and where they had been. And maybe embellish a bit too, of course ;-)

 

[Jobe Holiday]

The soldier of the ACW was no different than any other soldier in history. They wanted souviners and mementos of where they were and what they did. Just look at the hotel where Ellsworth was killed, in hardly no time at all it was nearly a pile of match sticks, even the carpet was cut up into pieces! If they weren't able to take something they left their names and dates scribed onto anything that was of a permanent nature just so future generations would know "they" were there. The Legionnairs of Rome did the same thing. The Vikings were the ultimate "souviners hunters", as evidenced recently when a Viking shield was excavated and found to have a collection of coins from every corner of the known world hidden inside the iron boss in the center of the shield! So, inscribed musket stocks, not as unusual as one might think.
J.

 

[johan_steele]

Just a fleeting thought: Who would carve a commoration of a battle on his gunstock?

Smacks of fraud. "I carried this at X battle." Really?

I'm reminded of an original m1817 percussion conversion with the inscription "I carried this to Vicksburg" carved on the comb with the mans name carved inside the patch box. Turns out his cos had the M1841 by the Vicksburg but had started the war with m1817 so the question becomes when did he acquire it & when did he engrave it? Was it a momento for him or did his son or grandson get a little enthusiastic? These pieces have had 150 years to be modified.

Add in the practice of some GAR halls to create commemoration pieces. Some given to wounded vets who lacked the means or opportunity to buy their arms to take home. Every piece has a history and in few cases are we lucky enough to know the story.

 

[Taji04]

I know that this is a late post, but I have been looking for one of these for a couple of years. They are also known as M1857 Saxon Dresden Rifles. My ancestor carried one in the 30th Wisconsin, and yes they were considered a Class 1 rifle. If anyone knows of one that is or could be for sale, let me know. Both of my ancestors (30th Wis and 89th NY) carried European rifles (the 89th NY carried Austrian Lorenzes in .54 cal). I have a Lorenz, but am trying to track down a Dresden. Thanks in advance for any leads.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

I know that this is a late post, but I have been looking for one of these for a couple of years. They are also known as M1857 Saxon Dresden Rifles. My ancestor carried one in the 30th Wisconsin, and yes they were considered a Class 1 rifle. If anyone knows of one that is or could be for sale, let me know. Both of my ancestors (30th Wis and 89th NY) carried European rifles (the 89th NY carried Austrian Lorenzes in .54 cal). I have a Lorenz, but am trying to track down a Dresden. Thanks in advance for any leads.

Dude, strong username.
Chewed some dirt there myself a few times.

 

[Taji04]

Dude, strong username.
Chewed some dirt there myself a few times.

First go around in Taji in 04. The wild west. Good times, though in spite of everything going on. When were you there?

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

First go around in Taji in 04. The wild west. Good times, though in spite of everything going on. When were you there?

Sent you a private message!
(Don't want to jam up OP's thread)

 

[RebelHeart]

Welcome from southern New Jersey!

 

[Michael W.]

Did you happen to stick around at the auction and see what it went for? Shiloh ID'd weapon. What a great find...

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

It went for $4600 including 15% buyers premium. Obviously some thought this was an authentic inscription!

 

[Michael W.]

It went for $4600 including 15% buyers premium. Obviously some thought this was an authentic inscription!

Good grief! Even if it is authentic to Shiloh, it still is not worth anything NEAR to that amount. Sounds like it turned into a bidding frenzy among people who don't know the value of guns. The ONLY way it would be worth that much (and more) is if it could be proved to be the gun that shot Gen. Albert S. Johnson....