Collection Sharps New Model 1863

[wwf]

I have a Sharps New Model 1863 carbine that my father found about 1950 in an old building outside Philadelphia. I'd like to pin down whatever details possible regarding it's history and after reading other threads on this forum I realized this was an appropriate place to ask.

Serial number 79152. All original but I suspect it would be considered in just "fair" condition. As kids in the 1950s we played with it even though we could barely lift it.

On the left side of the stock are the initials J.R. carved neatly in cursive, about 1.5 inches in height. Immediately behind the lock and beneath the ring are the initials R.M. at 1/4 inch high in block letters. While I recognize identification of those individuals is unlikely, it would be cool to learn who they were.

I have no intention of selling but some rough idea of value would be of interest. The carbine nicely complements a sword that belonged to my 2g-uncle who served in the regular Army from 1854 until forced into retirement 45 years later.

Thank you for your assistance.

 

[UCVRelics]

We will be happy to help you but we need photos to include makers marks and serial #. Looking forward to seeing your Sharps.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy. Photos will help

 

[scooter748driver]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your Sharps.

 

[Seduzal]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just jump right in and enjoy. To get a better overview of these form s you can look here: https://civilwartalk.com/forums/

 

[wwf]

Thank you, gentlemen. I am attaching some photos. I see no additional marks (e.g., proof marks, inspectors, etc.) but would look further if told where they are likely to be.

 

[wwf]

I stand self-corrected - after viewing a different similar thread, I looked at the barrel immediately in front of the breech. It appears there is an "I W" mark - difficult to be sure about the first letter. See attached photos

 

[wwf]

We will be happy to help you but we need photos to include makers marks and serial #. Looking forward to seeing your Sharps.

Unfortunately photos don't appear to have moved things along yet . . .

 

[UCVRelics]

Thanks for the nudge as I must have missed you posting photos. Your Sharps is not listed in the SRS and the range of serial # is below. Keep in mind that you can't read anything into them as if its not listed, its not listed. If it was a military issue it should have a cartouche with the inspectors initials as the one below. It should be under the saddle ring bar. Also, does it have a patch box?

1863

1865

.52

71235 C1

99999 C49528

60000 produced

79103 C CO M 5TH IOWA VOL CAV (TO OO)
79120 C ST LOUIS CAV DEPOT (TO SA)
79135 C 63CO I 1ST MO VOL CAV
79135 C 63CO I 1ST MO VOL CAV

 

[wwf]

Thank you for getting back to this!

Yes to the patch box. Yes to the cartouche, although it is not well imprinted and initials can't be read (at least by me). I'd noticed this before but in most lighting it is not obvious so wasn't certain.

Minor points: barrel SN matches tang number. Also, on the barrel moving towards the receiver from the SN are the letter J and separately the number 3.

 

[wwf]

Thanks for the nudge as I must have missed you posting photos. Your Sharps is not listed in the SRS and the range of serial # is below. Keep in mind that you can't read anything into them as if its not listed, its not listed. If it was a military issue it should have a cartouche with the inspectors initials as the one below. It should be under the saddle ring bar. Also, does it have a patch box?

1863

1865

.52

71235 C1

99999 C49528

60000 produced

79103 C CO M 5TH IOWA VOL CAV (TO OO)
79120 C ST LOUIS CAV DEPOT (TO SA)
79135 C 63CO I 1ST MO VOL CAV
79135 C 63CO I 1ST MO VOL CAV

View attachment 497833

Did you intend to repeat the last two serial numbers issued to the Missouri cavalry?

 

[Story]

I have a Sharps New Model 1863 carbine that my father found about 1950 in an old building outside Philadelphia. I'd like to pin down whatever details possible regarding it's history and after reading other threads on this forum I realized this was an appropriate place to ask.

Neat. If you could narrow down that building's address, there might be a circumstantial connection to a Civil War veteran.

I have a similar connection with my Model 1859 Sharps, to a trooper in Company I 15th Pennsylvania Cavalry.

Also, is the nipple on your carbine missing?

 

[wwf]

Neat. If you could narrow down that building's address, there might be a circumstantial connection to a Civil War veteran.

I have a similar connection with my Model 1859 Sharps, to a trooper in Company I 15th Pennsylvania Cavalry.

Also, is the nipple on your carbine missing?

Hadn't thought of that possibility - would have to do a search of the deeds, I expect. The location is on Lancaster Pike in the middle of Ardmore (the Pennsy RR station is behind it) but StreetView suggests that it is now converted to a modern apartment or something. My dad and some others purchased it for their offices - I have some of relevant documents with addresses but going back another 80 years might be tough (I'm not in that area). I am intrigued that Sharps (whatever models) were issued to Pennsylvania troops. As you can see in earlier posts, nearby serial numbers went to Missouri units. The nipple is still in place although a bit bungered up from all the dry firing (**** kids! ;-) Thanks for the idea!

 

[Story]

Hadn't thought of that possibility - would have to do a search of the deeds, I expect. The location is on Lancaster Pike in the middle of Ardmore (the Pennsy RR station is behind it) but StreetView suggests that it is now converted to a modern apartment or something.

Yup. I'm familiar with the area, there use to be a decent hobby shop over there back in the day.

The historical society is a good place to work backwards.

1900 Edition - Lower Merion Historical Society

lowermerionhistory.org

Ardmore station is in the middle of this map

https://lowermerionhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ardmore-R.R.-Station-Plate-11.jpg

 

[wwf]

Yup. I'm familiar with the area, there use to be a decent hobby shop over there back in the day.

The historical society is a good place to work backwards.

1900 Edition - Lower Merion Historical Society

lowermerionhistory.org

Ardmore station is in the middle of this map

https://lowermerionhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ardmore-R.R.-Station-Plate-11.jpg

Grew up in Radnor. I think I recall the hobby shop. And even the Autocar factory fire in the '50s. Have used the historical society in the past - will look in this context. Checked StreetView and it turns out the building is still there and looks pretty much the same. Thanks again.

 

[Story]

Grew up in Radnor. I think I recall the hobby shop.

[brain fart dissipates] ALLIED HOBBIES! [/brain fart dissipates]

 

[bayonet]

your missing the screw in front of the saddle ring bar. You could probably get a replacement from S&S or other part dealers

 

[wwf]

Thanks for the nudge as I must have missed you posting photos. Your Sharps is not listed in the SRS and the range of serial # is below. Keep in mind that you can't read anything into them as if its not listed, its not listed. If it was a military issue it should have a cartouche with the inspectors initials as the one below. It should be under the saddle ring bar. Also, does it have a patch box?

1863

1865

.52

71235 C1

99999 C49528

60000 produced

79103 C CO M 5TH IOWA VOL CAV (TO OO)
79120 C ST LOUIS CAV DEPOT (TO SA)
79135 C 63CO I 1ST MO VOL CAV
79135 C 63CO I 1ST MO VOL CAV

View attachment 497833

A while back you asked a couple questions about my Sharps, one of which was "does it have a patch box?" I responded in the affirmative. Earlier today I looked at a website [relicman.com] that has several Sharps in the 93xxx and above serial numbers, none of which has a patch box. I believe he had a 92xxx with a patchbox. So my question is: what is the relevance of a patchbox - does it have any significance (e.g., date of manufacture) because they discontinued that feature at some specific point?

 

[bayonet]

A while back you asked a couple questions about my Sharps, one of which was "does it have a patch box?" I responded in the affirmative. Earlier today I looked at a website [relicman.com] that has several Sharps in the 93xxx and above serial numbers, none of which has a patch box. I believe he had a 92xxx with a patchbox. So my question is: what is the relevance of a patchbox - does it have any significance (e.g., date of manufacture) because they discontinued that feature at some specific point?

Apparently they stopped adding the patchboxs with the April 1 1863 contact onwards.

 

[wwf]

Apparently they stopped adding the patchboxs with the April 1 1863 contact onwards.

Thanks. That suggests that my carbine was manufactured prior to that contract award. Or, perhaps, it was assembled with a stock from inventory (and having a patchbox).