Saving Battlefields

[pamc153PA]

I was just reading--again--about the Walmart Wilderness Battlefield debate in Orange County, VA. Seems that area gets through one crisis (i.e. the Mullin property adjacent to Chancellorsville a few years ago) and another one comes along. A question occurred to me regarding battlefield preservation:

How should we (as a nation) determine what battlefields should be saved and what land should be let go into the hands of development?

That seems to be the big question, and I don't think there is a "system" of any sort employed at the moment, except maybe "money talks." And, considering these are national treasures, and that once they are gone, they are gone, I feel there should be some sort of way of making a determination.

I, being the Civil War lover I am, would say, "Keep them all the way they are, as pristine as possible!" Which, of course, isn't realistic. And, too, I might not have the same passion (passion = $) for saving some of the Cedar Creek battlefield, for example, as I would for Gettysburg, because I have ancestors who fought at Gettysburg, not Cedar Creek. So it's never a clearcut thing.

But is there a way to make the process easier?

Just thoughts,

Pam

 

[The Iron Duke]

I think first we need to consider what battlefields are truly at risk. A place like Gettysburg has too much national notoriety and political significance to ever be seriously at risk of destruction. A place like Stones River, on the other hand, is being swallowed up. I think it's absolutely farcical that Gettysburg has made CWPT's Top 10 Most Endangered list four years in a row. Places like Gettysburg, Antietam, Shiloh, and Chickamauga are protected. IMO, it's time to move on to other battlefields like Champions Hill, Cedar Creek, and Franklin.

 

[Elennsar]

We should probably also try and find out what "preserved as they should be" means. What should a preserved battlefield look like?

 

[101combatvet]

Boycott WallyMart.... that should fix them.

 

[ole]

Pristine, Elennsar, about says it all. Of course that is no longer possible except for those that were caught early. Antietam and Shiloh and Perryvile. By the time anyone got excited about the historical aspects of significant historical sites, they were papered over with malls and MickeyD's and WallyWorlds.

It's a nostalgic thing that's only recently gained enough attention to do something. Something about historical sites and all that. Too little, too late.

It's highly desirable that a preserved battlefield ought to look as closely as possible as it did. That, of course, is now quite impossible. Was treated to a tour of the Nashville "battlefield" once. "We're now on Shy's (Sly's? Never did get that right.) Hill. Over there is a piece of the stone fence that was there and behind which X put up a valiant but futile defense against Y's troops. This is not battlefield preservation.

Want to see a field that closely approximates what was there at the time? Look hard and long. All battles were fought on private property. When the battle was over, the owners of the land went back to tilling and planting. Private property. The NPS buys what it can, if it isn't bidding against a deveveloper. And there is that which is already developed. There may never be a way to return, say, Petersburg to anything resembling the battlefield. If it were to be done, it would have to be called a re-creation, a reproduction. The original is gone.

Ole

 

[Elennsar]

Want to see a field that closely approximates what was there at the time? Look hard and long. All battles were fought on private property. When the battle was over, the owners of the land went back to tilling and planting. Private property. The NPS buys what it can, if it isn't bidding against a deveveloper. And there is that which is already developed. There may never be a way to return, say, Petersburg to anything resembling the battlefield. If it were to be done, it would have to be called a re-creation, a reproduction. The original is gone.

Ole

And that is the problem. Even in areas not overly covered in development - farms were worked, forests were logged (or not), etc.

So I suppose the question is what is the realistic goal to preserve/recreate what we can.

What do would be reasonable to try and have as a national park, assuming sufficient funds to buy enough land to matter? Buying only a couple acres wouldn't cover Gettysburg, for instance.

There's no point trying to find out how to make X possible without knowing what X is.

 

[unionblue]

Pam,

The sad fact of the matter is, "we" are not going to be able to save or preserve every significant battlefield of the American Civil War, or a lot of the little, insignificant ones (if there can be such a battlefield).

The only ones who can do such are the people of this country getting agitated enough to do so. They have to see the value in doing such. And way too often they can't, or don't realize that they should.

Let's be a tad realistic and a bit cynical. How many people do you know in your circle fo friends actually care enough about the Civil War to even discuss it at a social gathering? How often does the subject of the Civil War come up? Except for a few of us dedicated fanatics, amateur enthusisats, and reruns of Civil War Journal on the History Channel, there ain't a whole lot of folks who care about such.

Should they? On yeah, darn right they should. But I can't blame them for not doing so, being more worried about keeping or finding a job and taking care of their families in such a crazy time.

Look at what happened here in Ohio, where we only have ONE Civil War battlefield, Buffington Island. It was here, along the Ohio River, that Morgan's Raiders were brought to battle by elements of Union infantry, artillery, cavalry, homeguards, and Union Navy gunboats, there's hardly a battle where all of these unique elements were ever present in one place. In fact, at least 35 Confederate soldiers are buried somewhere on the battlefield in unmarked, unlocated graves and the battlefield is mostly pristine, untouched farmers fields. Worth preserving? You bet. Know what happened?

Its been turned into a gravel pit.

And this in spite of the fact local Civil War reenacting groups (yours truly included), local and state historical societies, and even an assist from the Sons of Union Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy, marching in protest to the state capitol in Columbus, Ohio.

And we even had University professors and students doing digs on the site, recovering hundreds of artifacts.

The reasons given for not preserving Ohio's one and only Civil War battlefield?

Jobs.

A desperate need for jobs in one of the most depressed areas in the State of Ohio. A whole 35 jobs would go to desperate local folks who had been unemployed for a long time.

It seemed odd to me then that the number of Confederate graves more than likely sacrificed and made part of an asphalt road equated into exactly the number of jobs their sacrifice created.

We should preserve the past, as much and as often as we can. But the hard truth is, we live in the present and to do that sometimes, we sacrifice the past.

We are not going to save them all.

But we should try to save as many as we can.

Groups like The Civil War Preservation Trust, 1331 H St., NW, Ste. 1001, Washington, DC 2005 and the National Park Service are trying to.

http://www.nps.gov/wicr

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[PvtClewell]

I think first we need to consider what battlefields are truly at risk. A place like Gettysburg has too much national notoriety and political significance to ever be seriously at risk of destruction. A place like Stones River, on the other hand, is being swallowed up. I think it's absolutely farcical that Gettysburg has made CWPT's Top 10 Most Endangered list four years in a row. Places like Gettysburg, Antietam, Shiloh, and Chickamauga are protected. IMO, it's time to move on to other battlefields like Champions Hill, Cedar Creek, and Franklin.

Re: Gettysburg. Really?

The sprawl from the Philadelphia — Washington DC — Richmond corridor is a constant and continuing threat (which also threatens Antietam). Traffic is already a serious issue. 'Protection' is a relative term and is never really permanent, especially, as Pam puts it, when money talks. For example, what if the proposed c*a*s*i*n*o* had been built at Gettysburg? Wasn't that a real threat?

In theory, Manassas, Chancellorsville and the Wilderness are protected, too. And yet...

Gettysburg is the crown jewel, the holy grail and the cash cow in the NPS Civil War system and putting it on the top 10 endangered list certainly creates awareness of the issue in an effort to perhaps slow, if not stop, further erosion of the field from encroaching development further down the road.

And the road really ain't that long anymore. And it is heavily traveled.

I understand your frustration, Iron Duke. I'm not arguing your point. I wish I could save them all, and my wife thinks I'm trying to with my donations to the CWPT. But IMO, putting G-burg on the list is really not a farce. I'm glad to see it.

 

[The Iron Duke]

I guess what I'm trying to argue is that Gettysburg, Chickamauga, and Kennesaw may become stuck in a sea of urban sprawl but the core areas of those battles have been preserved. I wish we could save every single piece of land but that's an unrealistic goal, IMO. But if the core battlefield is preserved then I feel that the major part of our preservation effort has been accomplished. No one likes urban sprawl. But unfortunately, with a growing population and more and more people leaving the Rust Belt states for the south, it's a fact of life. I wish every battlefield could be like Saratoga which is an excellent place to visit. But I think there comes a point when it's time to progress onto other battles.

Plus, think of what could happen to the local economies if multiple battlefields within a state were saved. They could create their own version of Virginia's Civil War Trails. So instead of having only one place to visit and that one town getting all the tourist money, you would provide an incentive for people to travel around from town to town which helps put additional money into the economy.

 

[diddyriddick]

Perhaps we are missing something here. It is not only Civil War sites that need protecting. There are other historical sites, general cultural sites, and natural wonders that are the domain of the NPS. To borrow a (perhaps apocryphal) phrase from Lincoln, "theres too many pigs for the tits!"

We need to pick our battles carefully.

 

[whitworth]

Perhaps too many battlefields

are saved in Virginia, continuing to give the false slant on the war altogether.
Virginia was only one state and was not really the overriding factor in the defeat of the Confederacy.

Years ago, I remember visiting a hospital, completely surrounded by the City of Atlanta. A small monument indicated that a civil war battle had started on the hospital location.

Not long ago, I went by the hospital, not recognizing the area for the new high rises.

So much for the battle of Peachtree Creek. The Confederate defeat has been long forgotten as a topographical site.

 

[ole]

We need to pick our battles carefully.

Which is why the CWPT needs our support. The group actively monitors available adjacent to battlefields that ought to be part of that battlefield. Individually, we can't pick and choose and figure what ought to be; the CWPT does that groundwork for us. When they find something, they let us know about it.

Many important battlefields are well past saving, but there are many with potential to add important fields as they come up for sale. There is the opportunity to put our money where our mouth is. And the CWPT is our search engine.

Ole

 

[captainrlm]

There can't be "too many" saved anywhere. Even if Virginia (whether government or local agencies there) is doing a better preservation job than other states, that should be encouraged.

I also don't see how that adds a false slant to the war, but maybe I'm too familiar witht the war to see preservation of fields as being the same as the importance of the state -a newbie to the Civil War might get that impression I suppose.

Even if that is the case, however, it is true that many, many, many battles took place in Virginia and both national capitals were in/around the state. It was an important state and it is a GOOD thing that so much has been preserved so far. I don't think it has the negative implications you try to attach to it, nor do I think preservation lends a false pretense of its importance during the war.

are saved in Virginia, continuing to give the false slant on the war altogether.
Virginia was only one state and was not really the overriding factor in the defeat of the Confederacy.

Years ago, I remember visiting a hospital, completely surrounded by the City of Atlanta. A small monument indicated that a civil war battle had started on the hospital location.

Not long ago, I went by the hospital, not recognizing the area for the new high rises.

So much for the battle of Peachtree Creek. The Confederate defeat has been long forgotten as a topographical site.

 

[timk]

Ole - I think you nailed it. I'm much too busy to go figure out which battlefields I/we should and could save. I get emails and snail mail from the CWPT when they need help, and if I'm in a good position, I do what I can. If I can't, I swallow hard and hope somebody else steps up.

About a year ago, I paid a surprise visit to the CWPT office in DC just to see how they would handle an unannounced visit from a supporter. Long story short - these guys are really good at what they do and I trust them in whatever they say (and believe me, I don't throw trust around freely).

 

[Elijah]

I favor active resistance through public opinion and even the courts to preserve what is left of our battlefields. In the past 140+ years much has been lost to urban sprawl, etc. I can understand that. But, I think enough is enough and would like to see what is left capable of preservation be preserved.

To try and preserve sites within cities such as Petersburg is very unlikely. They were developed long ago and any similarity to the civil war site is gone.

 

[timk]

Don't give up on Petersburg just yet. There is plenty there that can and should be saved. My concern is that some developer will recognize this, buy the land, threaten to build a big box store, and then sell it back to the CWPT or another preservation group for four times what he paid for it.

Fredericksburg, however, is very close to being a lost cause. I have walked through the neighborhoods from the historic district up to the stone wall just to see what the slope felt like. I don't know if I would have the stomach, though, to live in one of those houses knowing I live on ground that some 8000 men gave their lives. Too creepy for me.

 

[pamc153PA]

I remember the first time I went to Fredericksburg. Very disappointing. Even standing at the wall, using my vivid imagination and a photo from soon after the battle, I couldn't see the battlefield.

But Fredericksburg was at the time of the battle and is still a town. I'm not sure how you'd have saved any of it. I think it's inherently easier to try to save field and open space, or historic structures that haven't been demolished or let to fall apart. I don't even remember thinking, Wow, I wish they'd saved the battlefield, there, but I do know I've thought that at the Wilderness, and at Gettysburg, among other "open space" battlefields.

Pam

 

[larry_cockerham]

Perhaps we are missing something here. It is not only Civil War sites that need protecting. There are other historical sites, general cultural sites, and natural wonders that are the domain of the NPS. To borrow a (perhaps apocryphal) phrase from Lincoln, "theres too many pigs for the tits!"

We need to pick our battles carefully.

I merely loved that quote, so I used it as a place to post. Diddy's quite right, however. The reason is that preserving anything takes mostly dollars and then votes. It ain't an overnight thing. The folks in Franklin, TN will tell you that. They haven't given up, having followed the admoniton of Jim Valvano. Neil is correct that many folks just don't give a fat rat's. That's our challenge. Welcome to the army.