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Discussion in 'Civil War Weapons and Ammunition' started by Major_Fool, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    I did not see what the source of the information was. I know that I have read it and will have to dig through my sources and find the exact quote.
    Thanks for the info
     

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  3. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Just got back from the 15oth anniversary of the Battle of Selma helping to represent Wilson's Raiders armed with Spencers and some Henry rifles.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Lincoln's 150th Funeral Anniversary.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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  6. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Perryville, KY for 2016 seems to be one of the reenactments for next year. Here is the question, were there Henry rifles at the Battle of Perryville? I have not been able to identify any regiments or even individuals that were armed with Henry rifles. With that said by the time of Perryville there were troops in the area armed with Henry rifles on both sides of the conflict. Captain Lorenzo Fisher, CS, commanded a company, at least 50, of men in the 10th KY Partisan Rangers armed with Henry rifles that captured Clarksville in August. Henry rifles were easily purchased in Louisville for those that had the money.

    There have also been a few .44 Rim fire casing found on the battlefield. Does a few empty shell casings make for a good case for using a Henry at the reenactment? There has been Henry rifles used in the past at reenactments at Perryville. The empty cases could have just as easily been a deer hunter firing at a deer with a Henry rifle or Winchester 1866, both chambered for the same round twenty years after the war. Yes, there are the stories of how a soldier could have, maybe bought or even was given a Henry rifle before the battle. The bottom line is there are no Henry rifles, as yet, that can be trace back to the Battle of Perryville. If anybody has some documentation I would be very interested in it to add to my library.

    With the above stated when I show up for Perryville it will not be with my Henry rifle but my original 1842 Springfield .69 "Pumpkin Slinger".
     
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  7. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Franklin, TN has been able to add more land to their battlefield park. During some of the recent archeological excavation they uncovered several Henry .44 rim fire cases from the area around the Federal trenches.
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    The Winchester Collectors Association Summer edition of their magazine has an excellent article on a Henry rifle as well as some history. It will be out in August. It is about a Henry rifle owned and used by a member of the 7th Illinois Infantry and the Battle of Allatoona Pass.
     
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  9. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    [​IMG]
    Summer 2015
    • “Researching Historic Henry & Winchester Rifles” by Rob Kassab
    • “A Treasure Stored in a Closet” by Clarence Parks & Andrew L. Bresnan
    • “Historic Inscribed Model 1873″ by G. Scott Soles
    • “The Kalivoda Henry” by Don Grove & Ray House
    • “Winchester Household Items” by Jennifer Gole & Gary Gole
    • “Winchester Service Department Circa 1960″ by Greg Dockter
    • “By George We’ve Got It!” by G. Scott Soles

    The full content of this issue of the Winchester Collector Magazine is available to all logged-in WACA members with membership dues current. Join WACA now for immediate access, or login if you are already a paying member.
     
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  10. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    My original Spencer Carbine in .56-50 was a pretty good shooter. Firing at 50 yards without a rest I was able to hold a 5 shot group in a six inch group. Now that is really nothing to brag about but for a 150 year old firearm I thought that was not too bad. the bad thing was at 100 yards I had difficulty in hitting the target with all of the shots. I used to make blanks for my carbine from .50-70 brass that was cut down and I would load 325 grains of ffg and it sounded good. I made sure that I picked up all of my brass. I can remember at a Civil War reenactment in Mahomet, Illinois back in the 1980s they had a live fire shoot which my carbine won the carbine class. I used it again at a shoot in Quincy, Illinois and won there. At 50 yards it would generally do pretty good. I used a 350 grain lead bullet with 25 grains of ffg. The problem in firing black powder is the fouling after a few shots. As the fouling builds the accuracy goes out the window. When I was shooting NRA BPCR a few years back I would use a "blow tube" in between shots to help keep the fouling soft and then clean after every 10 shot bank of targets. During a battle in the Civil War I would suspect that no matter what rifle a person was shooting after a few shot the fouling became a problem either for accuracy or loading a muzzle loader.

    Many like to debate which was better, the Henry rifle or the Spencer. I own and have shot both and without a doubt I would choose the Henry rifle every time. It is faster to shoot, holds more rounds and the range is about the same for both rifles.
     
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  11. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    [​IMG]
    My original Spencer carbine. It has the Stabler cutoff and the rear sling mount has been removed. It is an accurate shooting carbine with live ammunition. Not bad for a 150 year old firearm. While many have mentioned that the Spencer was a longer range weapon than the Henry rifle in reality it was a 200 yard weapon for reliable hits on a man size target. It was not a target grade weapon. Its big advantage was in the fact that it was a repeating firearm. I have also used my reproduction Spencer rifle many times and generally use it these days instead of my carbine. The Spencer is a lot work to operate when compared to the Henry rifle which the lever cocks the hammer back as it is worked.
     
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  12. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    I am sure this has been mentioned before but here goes anyway. A friend of mine mentioned to me yesterday a couple of comments made to him about using his Henry rifle at a reenactment by a so called "learned individual". The comments were: 1. "I just see too many Henry rifles at events". and 2. "There were NO brass frame Henry rifles used in the Civil War".

    Number 1. There really is not very many reproduction Henry rifles used in reenacting. The closest number of Henry rifles used in reenacting is less than 200 used nationwide. This number is based on communications that I have had with many individuals who own Henry rifles or those that also have friends using Henry rifles. Generally those "learned individuals" have not researched the Henry rifle or when or where they were used. One comment that is generally given is; "We reenact the "Common Soldier". Their definition of the "Common Soldier" usually represents what they choose to reenact without having room for any other impressions. Or they may say that they reenact what the majority of soldiers used. These people are not historians but "selective historians" and only want to give their side of the story.

    Henry rifles were used in the Civil War from as early as 1862 throughout the entire war. They were not only used by the Union but also by the Confederacy. The 10 KY Partisan Rangers CS had a company of men (at least 50) armed with Henry rifles as early as August of 1862 when the capture of Clarksville, TN took place. Even at Corinth at least one Confederate was armed with a Henry rifle. By the time 1863 comes around the 66th Illinois Western Sharpshooters were purchasing their own Henry rifles. The 7th Illinois Infantry purchased their Henry rifles in early 1864. The list goes on of regiments and individuals arming themselves with Henry rifles. The government also got into the act of buying Henry rifles by purchasing 1731 Henry rifles and arming the 1st DC Cavalry.

    If a reenactor armed with a Henry rifle shows up at an event where Henry rifles were present at during the war there should not be a problem. To those that think there are too many Henry rifles at reenactments I would be interested in how many is too many. At the 150 Bentonville last March there were 35 men armed with Henry rifles in our regiment along with some Spencers and muzzle loaders. Any battle that Sherman's army took part in from 1863 to the end of the war Henry rifles were used since several regiments were armed with them as well as Spencers. Now if a reenactor shows up at an event that was too early or Henry rifles were not used at then they are in the wrong. A Henry rifle at Bull Run would not be correct nor would one at Gettysburg.

    As for number 2: This is totally false since most of the Henry rifles used in the Civil War were indeed brass frame Henry rifles. There were over 9,000 Henry rifles used in the Civil War and some say over 10,000. There were less than 400 iron frame rifles ever made the rest were brass frame. The comment made to my friend is typical of those that do not know anything about the Henry rifle and by those wanting to push their own agenda of only muzzle-loaders were used.

    Hopefully this will help some out.
     
  13. kansas

    kansas Corporal

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    With 14000 made into 1866 9000 or 10000 seems a bit optimistic. That would leave almost no one in all the states not involved with war having none. The folks out west would sure had quite a few. In Missouri alone they were advertised a great deal for civilian use. In Kansas they were a common firearm with civilians. That is just to many I think.
     
  14. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Many of those same 9,000 to 10,000 did make there way out west as ex-soldiers went west after the war. Actually the number of closest estimate for the Civil War would be 9,000 to 9,400. There were a lot of advertisements but few Henry rifles for sale. It would be interesting to know when and how many Henry rifles those folks out west had. The Henry rifle was never a common firearm be it with the army or the civilian population. Although I would be very interested in the numbers you have found for Henry rifles out west and in what year. Using the following resources of Les Quick's book The Henry Repeating Rifle, Wiley Sword's book on the Henry rifle and the website of http://44henryrifle.webs.com/civilwarusage.htm the numbers of 9,000 plus are backed up for Civil War production 1861 through 1865 and usage. As to states not involved in the war, I might ask which ones those were. All states were involved in one way or another.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
  15. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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  16. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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  17. Jobe Holiday

    Jobe Holiday First Sergeant

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    I had an opportunity to hold one of the brass frame models. The flats were so highly buffed that they were nearly rounded off, and look at the butt stock profile in the above photo. I think it is more late Winchester than original Henry.
    Just my 2 cents from handling it.
    J.
     
  18. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Here is a picture of an original Henry rifle butt stock.
    [​IMG]

    Compare to the new iron frame Henry rifle being made.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. JOHN42768

    JOHN42768 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  20. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Thanks for posting the article, very interesting. After reading it I wish they would have separated the Henry rifles and French rifles rather than clump them together at 633.
    Most of the Spencer rifles were in the hands of Wilder's Brigade as were a lot of Henry rifles.
    http://44henryrifle.webs.com/wildersbrigadehenry.htm
     
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  21. 44 Henry

    44 Henry Corporal

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    Olustee Florida repeaters
    [​IMG]
     
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