Renaming Army bases?

Belfoured

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Polls are troubling as evidence as phrasing of questions usually determines outcomes. The only racism I witnessed in 7 years of Naval service was directed at whites and blacks by Phillipinos.
Yeah, polls can be troubling. If you're looking for the sort of evidence that supports conviction of a crime, that probably isn't available. If you're looking for the type of information that supports decisions in every day life, it's there. Start with what we know - there is a crowd out there that holds these beliefs. Add in the fact that it would violate common sense to conclude that absolutely nobody with these views could ever find their way into the military. That would be ridiculous on its face. I can tell you that I have acquaintances with professional, academy-educated career officers. They confirm that it's an issue and it needs to be rooted out. You may not have experienced any incidents of white racism. That's fine but others have.
 
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Sbc

First Sergeant
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Easley, South Carolina
I never claimed that was the only evidence. You asked me to cite evidence and I did. There's more out there if you look, including recent remarks by the incoming SecDef about needing to address racist extremism in the military.
Ok my standard for evidence would be reports from police departments or njp or court martial records that showed incidents of white supremacy behavior.
 

Sbc

First Sergeant
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Easley, South Carolina
Yeah, polls can be troubling. If you're looking for the sort of evidence that supports conviction of a crime, that probably isn't available. If you're looking for the type of information that supports decisions in every day life, it's there. Start with what we know - there is a crowd out there that holds these beliefs. Add in the fact that it would violate common sense to conclude that absolutely nobody with these views could ever find their way into the military. That would be ridiculous on its face. I can tell you that I have acquaintances with professional, academy-educated career officers. They confirm that it's an issue and it needs to be rooted out. You may not have experienced any incidents of white racism. That's fine but others have.
We can agree that those types of people exist and find their way into the military. “Rooting” out ideas or views sees pretty troubling unless it manifests itself in some sort of action deleterious to good order and discipline.
 

DanSBHawk

1st Lieutenant
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
Ok my standard for evidence would be reports from police departments or njp or court martial records that showed incidents of white supremacy behavior.
If it's a problem that tends to be secretive, and unprosecuted, I wouldn't expect to see a lot of NJP's or court martials.

Here is a recent article where a current military official says that the increase in white supremacist activity is mainly anecdotal, but part of the reason for the increased awareness of the problem is that it is becoming more likely to be reported. That may be due to recent protests.

"On the question of whether there is a surge in right-wing extremist activity within the military, the official said that there is, anecdotally, an increase. But part of that has to do with increased reporting and the visibility of these groups in the public, particularly in response to Black Lives Matter movement protests over the summer."​
 

Belfoured

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
We can agree that those types of people exist and find their way into the military. “Rooting” out ideas or views sees pretty troubling unless it manifests itself in some sort of action deleterious to good order and discipline.
Why do you think officers are concerned about this? For example, if a unit has a composite of ethnic/racial makeup, a commander would have to be deluded to think that somebody in the unit who holds white supremacist views isn't going to hurt unit morale. It is very unlikely that somebody holding those views will keep them 100% hidden or won't at some point express them in some way. Better to prevent the problem in the first place than to deal with the consequences if and when it blows up. In the military setting most reasonable people would question the value of protecting that kind of viewpoint.
 

Sbc

First Sergeant
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Easley, South Carolina
Why do you think officers are concerned about this? For example, if a unit has a composite of ethnic/racial makeup, a commander would have to be deluded to think that somebody in the unit who holds white supremacist views isn't going to hurt unit morale. It is very unlikely that somebody holding those views will keep them 100% hidden or won't at some point express them in some way. Better to prevent the problem in the first place than to deal with the consequences if and when it blows up. In the military setting most reasonable people would question the value of protecting that kind of viewpoint.
So you advocate discipline or discharge for ideas? Our society protects an individual’s views unless they commit acts that impinge on others. Proving someone’s private thoughts are racist is a fishing expedition. The UCMJ has wide latitude to maintain good order and discipline. Let’s be realistic here, renaming bases is not going to somehow create a post racial paradise. Nor will renaming everything else some group finds objectionable.
 

Sbc

First Sergeant
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Easley, South Carolina
If it's a problem that tends to be secretive, and unprosecuted, I wouldn't expect to see a lot of NJP's or court martials.

Here is a recent article where a current military official says that the increase in white supremacist activity is mainly anecdotal, but part of the reason for the increased awareness of the problem is that it is becoming more likely to be reported. That may be due to recent protests.

"On the question of whether there is a surge in right-wing extremist activity within the military, the official said that there is, anecdotally, an increase. But part of that has to do with increased reporting and the visibility of these groups in the public, particularly in response to Black Lives Matter movement protests over the summer."​
Again not a whole lot of hard evidence. I am in favor of swift, severe discipline for extremist acts but drawing a parallel with base names seems like a real stretch. Renaming everything some group finds objectionable is not going to create some post racial paradise.
 

major bill

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Forum Host
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
I saw racism in the military, knew people who I considered racist, but not sure I ever witnessed white supremacist activity in the military. I am not sure renaming bases will any real impact on weeding out racist who are in the military. I am also not sure the military is considering renaming military bases as an effort to end white supremacy activities by military members.
 

Tom Hughes

First Sergeant
Joined
May 27, 2019
Location
Mississippi
I heard on the news last night about the resurgence of changing current U.S. Military Bases that were named for Confederate Generals. What is everyone's thoughts on this?
 

Rusk County Avengers

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Location
Coffeeville, TX
I'm all for changing the names of a lot of them.:D

I think Fort Bragg should become "Fort Pettigrew" or "Fort Hoke" and Fort Hood ought to become "Fort McCulloch" or "Fort Wharton."

It always bugged me that US Army forts named for Confederates always seemed to get named for Confederate generals that did more to win the war for the Union more often than generals who were good or great. You know real Confederate heroes rather than buffoons.
 

Lubliner

Captain
Forum Host
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Location
Chattanooga, Tennessee
I'm all for changing the names of a lot of them.:D

I think Fort Bragg should become "Fort Pettigrew" or "Fort Hoke" and Fort Hood ought to become "Fort McCulloch" or "Fort Wharton."

It always bugged me that US Army forts named for Confederates always seemed to get named for Confederate generals that did more to win the war for the Union more often than generals who were good or great. You know real Confederate heroes rather than buffoons.
Regardless of brilliance but primarily due to some importance, Monroe Cross-roads became Fort Bragg. I know there is one on the California Coast, but I am speaking of North Carolina. We associate our memories with name places, and no matter what they do with the name, unless for official correspondence through proper channels, it shall always remain the same to me.
Lubliner.
 
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