Reminder

[rivrrat]

Well it that time again. Time to remind all you easterners that there was a Civil War west of the Mississippi River and it was important. Today marks the beginning on Gen. Stirling Price's invasion of Missouri in 1864. An action which had the potential of costing Lincoln the election of 1864, and changing the outcome of the War.

 

[gary]

Thank you Doug. The Trans-Mississippi is largely overlooked and forgotten as most historians (and publishers) pump out books on Northern Virginia or the Army of Tennessee.

Gen. Richard Taylor's book is pretty important and he raises the inference that had the Confederates been more successful in that theatre (by capture of Porter's Squadron at Red River and the 19th Corps), the outcome in the East might have been different or prolonged.

 

[rivrrat]

Not to mention the blown opportunity to take St. Louis when that idiot of a Texas Ranger Ben McCulloch refused to follow Price in Missouri after the battle of Wilson's Creek in 1861. Or Jeff Davis' buddy Earl Van Dorn's inability to defeat a numerically inferior force at Pea Ridge 1863, capped by his moving his force east of the Mississippi, essentially abandoning Missouri and most of Arkansas. I could go on and on.

 

[qwincbruce]

Speaking of the Price Invasion, a Civil War Reenactment is being held this weekend, Sept 25-26, at Pilot Knob. The federals will occupy the works of Ft. Davidson and the Confederates will charge across the open field.
It has been my honor to attend Pilot Knob 8 times in the last 24 years (it is hosted every 3 years by the State of Missouri).
A town festival is held in conjunction with the reenactment. Craft booths, concessions, and a beer garden are all within a stone's throw of the event. So the Pilot Knob weekend tetters very close to being a dog and pony show. However, the reenactors always have a lot of fun as it usually features a running 2 mile fight from Irontown to the fort. (Several companies of Union men were in nearby Ironton -Sept 27,1864. When Price's men came into the area, the Unionists slowly gave way through the town and back to the fort).
The following weekend I will be at Franklin. In late Oct, we will have a reenactment at Mine Creek, KS on the original site near Pleasanton, KS.

Robert W. Talbott

 

[illreb]

Robert ,
I too will be at Pilot Knob and Franklin, who will you be falling in with ?

 

[qwincbruce]

I thought all the Trans-Miss Confederates were going to Cabin Creek, OK?
Be that as it may, you may be surprised to learn I will be one of Gen. Tom Ewing's boys-a dreaded YANKEE-a member of Holmes Brigade.
I am an ordinary infantryman and merely a private at that.
At Franklin, I am once again a YANKEE with the Western Brigade.
Only southern garb I have is as a Missouri State Guardsman-civilian attire. I will be MSG at next years Athens, MO.

 

[illreb]

Thats ok Robert , we can't all be Rebs LOL .I'll be at both events with the 11th , maybe I'll see ya out there.

 

[5fish]

Thank you Doug. The Trans-Mississippi is largely overlooked and forgotten as most historians (and publishers) pump out books on Northern Virginia or the Army of Tennessee.

Gen. Richard Taylor's book is pretty important and he raises the inference that had the Confederates been more successful in that theatre (by capture of Porter's Squadron at Red River and the 19th Corps), the outcome in the East might have been different or prolonged.

There are only three events west of the Smokey Mountains that count during the civil war.

The first was Shiloh not because of Grant's gull but because of that one Confederate generals death.

The second was Vicksburg for it was the climax of one of the great campaigns in military history led by Grant.

The third was the fall of Atlanta for it insured Lincoln's reelection in 1864.

All the rest was a side show to what Lee was doing in the east. He was outmatched countless times and still bested his opponent countless times. He was the embodiment of the southern cause and when he finally fell bested by a better opponent the south fell with him.


Anything past the Mississippi well I will have to get back with you for that out there was more of a rogue and marauder type combat..

The CW west was just a side show the CW and Lee in the east...

 

[rivrrat]

There are only three events west of the Smokey Mountains that count during the civil war.

The first was Shiloh not because of Grant's gull but because of that one Confederate generals death.

The second was Vicksburg for it was the climax of one of the great campaigns in military history led by Grant.

The third was the fall of Atlanta for it insured Lincoln's reelection in 1864.

All the rest was a side show to what Lee was doing in the east. He was outmatched countless times and still bested his opponent countless times. He was the embodiment of the southern cause and when he finally fell bested by a better opponent the south fell with him.


Anything past the Mississippi well I will have to get back with you for that out there was more of a rogue and marauder type combat..

The CW west was just a side show the CW and Lee in the east...

Typical back east thinking. It is true that the Union had to win the war in the East. It is also very true that the Union could easily have lost the war in the West. You need to do a little more thinking and reading, my friend.

 

[5fish]

Typical back east thinking. It is true that the Union had to win the war in the East. It is also very true that the Union could easily have lost the war in the West. You need to do a little more thinking and reading, my friend.

Doug,

What east thinking? I think it is western jealousy of the east for its dominance and importance in the war.

You do have a consolation prise because it took a western like Grant to tame Lee.

I guess the west was just a training ground for Grant before he went a play with the big dog Lee.

Do you have a better story?

 

[Battalion]

There are only three events west of the Smokey Mountains that count during the civil war.

The first was Shiloh not because of Grant's gull but because of that one Confederate generals death.

The second was Vicksburg for it was the climax of one of the great campaigns in military history led by Grant.

The third was the fall of Atlanta for it insured Lincoln's reelection in 1864.

All the rest was a side show to what Lee was doing in the east. He was outmatched countless times and still bested his opponent countless times. He was the embodiment of the southern cause and when he finally fell bested by a better opponent the south fell with him.


Anything past the Mississippi well I will have to get back with you for that out there was more of a rogue and marauder type combat..

The CW west was just a side show the CW and Lee in the east...

Chickamauga (2nd only to Gettysburg in casualties)
Chattanooga
Murfreesboro (aka Stones River)
Franklin & Nashville
Bragg's Kentucky Campaign (Perryville)
Fort Donelson
Red River Campaign
Mobile Bay
Mobile Campaign
New Orleans (Forts Jackson & St. Phillip)

 

[samgrant]

Not to mention the blown opportunity to take St. Louis when that idiot of a Texas Ranger Ben McCulloch refused to follow Price in Missouri after the battle of Wilson's Creek in 1861. Or Jeff Davis' buddy Earl Van Dorn's inability to defeat a numerically inferior force at Pea Ridge 1863, capped by his moving his force east of the Mississippi, essentially abandoning Missouri and most of Arkansas. I could go on and on.

G*****n you Ben McCulloch!

-

 

[5fish]

Battalion:

Chickamauga (2nd only to Gettysburg in casualties)
Chattanooga
Murfreesboro (aka Stones River)
Franklin & Nashville
Bragg's Kentucky Campaign (Perryville)
Fort Donelson
Red River Campaign
Mobile Bay
Mobile Campaign
New Orleans (Forts Jackson & St. Phillip)

Battalion,

This is a great list of side show battles each has their place in history but at last just minor.

I am gracious so I will add:


Chattanooga: This is where Grant ascends to the best general in the union army.


Mobil Bay: The navel war of the CW is to offen ignored.

What you westerns forget is almost every battle Lee fought the Confederacy was at risk of losing Richmond and the war. Lee battles will always be major moments in the CW compared to battles in the west.

 

[timewalker]

Battalion,

This is a great list of side show battles each has their place in history but at last just minor.

I am gracious so I will add:


Chattanooga: This is where Grant ascends to the best general in the union army.


Mobil Bay: The navel war of the CW is to offen ignored.

What you westerns forget is almost every battle Lee fought the Confederacy was at risk of losing Richmond and the war. Lee battles will always be major moments in the CW compared to battles in the west.

Sorry. I have to disagree with you.

First the capture of Forts Henry & Donelson opened the way into Tennessee, secured Kentucky (and a large swath of Tennessee) for the Union and was a much-needed victory for Union morale at that stage of the war. The Conferacy lost the resources of Tennessee and Kentucky and soon much of Mississippi and Arkansas as well.

Second, the capture of New Orleans is too often overlooked as one of the greatest coups of the Union in the war. At the time, New Orleans was the largest city in the Confederacy and, if I recall correctly, the largest port in the United States, handling more tonnage than New York. Vicksburg would have meant nothing without the capture of New Orleans. As porous as the Union Blockade was, New Orleans in Confederate hands, along with the cotton production of the Red River valley, would have provided much needed capital for the Confederate cause. I think the capture of New Orleans, along with Vicksburg, and the resultant opening of the Mississippi to trade for the Midwestern farmers mollified sentiments in the Midwest toward the war.

Mobile Bay comes late in the war and pales in comparison to the capture of New Orleans.

As to the West being a sideshow, I also cannot agree. While the battles in the East were more politically important, the war in the West was what doomed the Confederacy militarily and economically.

 

[larry_cockerham]

Thats ok Robert , we can't all be Rebs LOL .I'll be at both events with the 11th , maybe I'll see ya out there.

Why can't we all be Rebs?

 

[5fish]

Why can't we all be Rebs?

If we were all rebels then we all should be Scalawags...

 

[unionblue]

Larry,

"Why can't we all be Rebs?"

I think there's a little rebel in all of us.

After all, we are all Americans.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[larry_cockerham]

Larry,



I think there's a little rebel in all of us.

After all, we are all Americans.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Somebody play Dixie, quick!

 

[bankerpapaw]

all rebels

Larry,



I think there's a little rebel in all of us.

After all, we are all Americans.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Amen to that.

 

[Borderruffian]

G*****n you Ben McCulloch!

-

Dunno. McCulloch had he gone with Price's Missouri Guard into Missouri, would have had to go with about 3 REGT'S that had mustered into service before Wilson's Creek. The bulk of his force including his artillery were Arkansas State troops not mustered into CS Service. In fact those troops and all of Pearces Arkansas troops were already promised to Hardee the Northern Ark district commander upon muster into CS service.

Prices troops were under armed and under provisioned. I don't see how McCullochs 3 REGT'S would have helped Price carry St Louis.