Reference material

[Ncrebel1861]

Hey everybody. Starting a collection of insignia, badges and metals. Does anybody have any suggestions on reference materials? Any help or suggestions for a beginner would be great.

 

[Salterr]

Hey everybody. Starting a collection of insignia, badges and metals. Does anybody have any suggestions on reference materials? Any help or suggestions for a beginner would be great.

I might be the only reference you need lol.

 

[Salterr]

Hey everybody. Starting a collection of insignia, badges and metals. Does anybody have any suggestions on reference materials? Any help or suggestions for a beginner would be great.

All jokes aside I can help out with a good deal of insignia if you'd like. When I get home I can list off many good books to get first before you buy anything. The amount of fake insignia is overwhelming so be very careful. The books cover a major amount of insignia but there are spots of info missing from them on certain departments. There are a lot of people here who will help you out tremendously. I'm sure you'll meet them soon.

 

[Ncrebel1861]

I might be the only reference you need lol.View attachment 473734View attachment 473735View attachment 473736View attachment 473737View attachment 473738View attachment 473739

Impressive collection!

 

[Ncrebel1861]

All jokes aside I can help out with a good deal of insignia if you'd like. When I get home I can list off many good books to get first before you buy anything. The amount of fake insignia is overwhelming so be very careful. The books cover a major amount of insignia but there are spots of info missing from them on certain departments. There are a lot of people here who will help you out tremendously. I'm sure you'll meet them soon.

Thank you. Any recommendations you have would be greatly appreciated. I have heard that these items are frequently faked, and it makes me nervous. I want to do some research first. Again many thanks!

 

[Salterr]

Thank you. Any recommendations you have would be greatly appreciated. I have heard that these items are frequently faked, and it makes me nervous. I want to do some research first. Again many thanks!

Frequently is an understatement. I can walk you through materials and construction, dimensions and types of officer and enlisted pieces. I can also share more insignia with you I haven't posted. The officers eagle badges are my favorite and are the bulk of my insignia pieces at 16. What piece do you want to start with and I can give you the rundown. I strongly suggest starting with these books. There's a lot more but this will get you started on enlisted insignia, officers insignia and shoulder boards. I will say though the straps book is not great. It lacks a ton of depth and has spelling errors but the base is there. There are books on badges too. What type of badges are you after? Ladder? GAR? UCV? Corps?

 

[RedRover]

There's a little bit online.

J.D. Campbell: American Military Insignia...

 

[Salterr]

Insignia - Crash course in identifying insignia characteristics | Relic Hunting & Collecting

Hi everyone, So what makes a good original insignia piece? The details! Why am I obsessed? The details! In order to assess what insignia you’re looking at and when it was made requires finding the minute changes in design, size, fasteners and materials that make up the piece. This isn’t a...

civilwartalk.com

 

[Ncrebel1861]

Frequently is an understatement. I can walk you through materials and construction, dimensions and types of officer and enlisted pieces. I can also share more insignia with you I haven't posted. The officers eagle badges are my favorite and are the bulk of my insignia pieces at 16. What piece do you want to start with and I can give you the rundown. I strongly suggest starting with these books. There's a lot more but this will get you started on enlisted insignia, officers insignia and shoulder boards. I will say though the straps book is not great. It lacks a ton of depth and has spelling errors but the base is there. There are books on badges too. What type of badges are you after? Ladder? GAR? UCV? Corps?View attachment 473775View attachment 473776View attachment 473777View attachment 473778View attachment 473779

Thank you very much for your response. I'm interested in collecting pins, badges and medals. I have already ordered one of the books and would like to start with pins. Are there any good confederate pins and where can I find them? I am open to suggestions

 

[Salterr]

Thank you very much for your response. I'm interested in collecting pins, badges and medals. I have already ordered one of the books and would like to start with pins. Are there any good confederate pins and where can I find them? I am open to suggestions

You'll just about loose your mind when you see how much they have Dealer link that should get you started and if you want more ucv items you absolutely have to talk to @ucvrelics. If he doesn't already have it or know where to get it it probably doesn't exist haha. List of dealers here is a list of dealers that either will specialize in your interest or at least have a selection of them on their sites. I haven't dealt with everyone on the list but there are some good ones on there to start. Also to add @CyleKostello has excellent knowledge on badges and can help you. https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ucv-badges-various-states-and-years.199408/

 

[Ncrebel1861]

What an amazing piece! Thank you for all the references. I can not wait to check them out. You really might be the only reference I need!

What do you think about this piece?

 

[Salterr]

What an amazing piece! Thank you for all the references. I can not wait to check them out. You really might be the only reference I need!

What do you think about this piece?
View attachment 474016View attachment 474017

Glad you're enjoying it so far. Here are my thoughts on this piece…this is the M1834 design for artillery. Pre war insignia with cannons that are shorter and stocky were introduced for use on wheel caps and shakos. This style was used until 1851. The longer more slender cannon insignia is of course the M1851 design. M= model followed by the design year. Because of the amount produced it is still common to see the 1834 insignia being used through the civil war until the surplus was exhausted.

Things to note in the details for this particular item are most visible on the back. On the top left and bottom right you'll see a tiny little dot. This is where the fasteners would be. Original pieces have loops meaning that there are two contact points in the solder. Seeing how this has one, it most likely had stick pins attached and that is mostly viewed as a post war trait that surplus dealers like Stokes Kirk and Bannerman used. Sometimes brass insignia has all 4 corners soldered with loops but it is also period correct to have as little as 2 loops. The front appears to have aged from environmental exposure. Not necessarily being in the ground but moisture and age maybe. People will fake aging with chemicals that turn the piece a greenish blue color like verdigris. Others will blast them with heat giving them a rainbow colored hue. Brass insignia is very thin and very fragile after years in the ground, it's very hard to recover full pieces.

Here is a picture of one of my M1851 artillery insignias recovered from Antietam. You'll see the size difference and I've added arrows pointing to the two contact marks that the only remaining loop is making.

 

[Ncrebel1861]

Thank you for the information. I learned a lot from the information. I ordered some books and can not wait for them to arrive. I was worried about this piece not being real but for different reasons. Something about the color doesn't look right, and while it is not heavy, it weighs more than I would have thought.

 

[Salterr]

Thank you for the information. I learned a lot from the information. I ordered some books and can not wait for them to arrive. I was worried about this piece not being real but for different reasons. Something about the color doesn't look right, and while it is not heavy, it weighs more than I would have thought.

Yes, stay away from overtly yellow pieces, they're reproductions. Go with your gut on the piece you showed and stay away from that one. There is a harshness to the color on reproductions. Genuine pieces tend to mellow out to a nice pleasing flat color. Here's an example of the color difference from real vs fake, look at the detail too the fake is not well defined. Again fasteners on these should not be twists or pins but loops. In fact they come in 2 and 3 fastener configurations. 2 loops tend to date earlier to shakos and the other has two loops and a hook on the bottom so you can bend your hat up and pin it for the hardee hat. They weigh next to nothing but you're feeling the added weight of the solder in each corner, that's a lot more than usually found on authentic pieces.

 

[Salterr]

Thank you for the information. I learned a lot from the information. I ordered some books and can not wait for them to arrive. I was worried about this piece not being real but for different reasons. Something about the color doesn't look right, and while it is not heavy, it weighs more than I would have thought.

You'll be very pleased with any of those books. They are packed with many pictures that will help you. You'll learn a ton and the fact that you already critiqued the 1834 insignia's color is a great start to analyzing the details. Reach out if you have any more questions on brass or embroidered insignia. If you need close up photos of construction on anything I've shared let me know.

 

[Ncrebel1861]

You can send me some of those reunion pieces!

 

[Salterr]

You can send me some of those reunion pieces!

If you trade me some nice triple border shoulder boards I just might hahah if you want to see GAR badges I can either make a post or send them in a conversation tomorrow. Between GAR and UCV reunion badges it's almost endless varieties. Some of the past commander presentation ones are spectacular. Most of these reunion or souvenir badges are very affordable so it's a great place to start collecting. I don't have a clue just how many there might be. Maybe others will share some with us.