Question regarding find a grave

[BCS1973]

I was on find a grave, and there is a person buried in one of our family plots under someone else's management. Unfortunately, their profile is listed as, "Not accepting messages". I was hoping to contact them about whether they know anything regarding that person although I doubt they do as they manage 50,000 memorials. I tried to message through the edit suggestion tab, but don't think it goes anywhere. If they don't have an attachment to that person I'd like to see if they would transfer management as I manage everyone else buried in that plot including the person it's deeded to. Is there a back door to get through in the event that my message doesn't get through?

 

[John Winn]

I was on find a grave, and there is a person buried in one of our family plots under someone else's management. Unfortunately, their profile is listed as, "Not accepting messages". I was hoping to contact them about whether they know anything regarding that person although I doubt they do as they manage 50,000 memorials. I tried to message through the edit suggestion tab, but don't think it goes anywhere. If they don't have an attachment to that person I'd like to see if they would transfer management as I manage everyone else buried in that plot including the person it's deeded to. Is there a back door to get through in the event that my message doesn't get through?

Your only choice is to use the edit suggestion route with the "contact manager" button. Unfortunately, many "managers" don't respond to edit suggestions and just let them get auto-fulfilled (which happens 21 days after a suggestion if it wasn't rejected). If that's the case here then the manager might just ignore your message.

A really long shot would be to send a message to [email protected] and ask them to transfer management to you. They're reluctant to transfer management unless you can show that you are directly related (which is a required transfer for anyone closer than 2nd cousin) and have tried to contact the manager.

Good luck.

p.s. - the reason most turn off messaging is because they get bombarded with messages from people that should be submitted through the editing process. Also, some people can be pestiferous or downright rude - especially if their edit didn't get accepted. I have messaging on but that's because I only manage memorials that are for family. All others that I create I eventually transfer to FindAGrave. If folks want to differ with what I provided they can use the edit function or take over management (FindAGrave will transfer to anyone).

That's also why I made all my Ancestry trees private. People were frequently adding my direct relatives to their trees and wouldn't respond to my attempts to contact and correct them. They also, of course, copied all the photos. It was just irritating.

 

[BCS1973]

Your only choice is to use the edit suggestion route with the "contact manager" button. Unfortunately, many "managers" don't respond to edit suggestions and just let them get auto-fulfilled (which happens 21 days after a suggestion if it wasn't rejected). If that's the case here then the manager might just ignore your message.

A really long shot would be to send a message to [email protected] and ask them to transfer management to you. They're reluctant to transfer management unless you can show that you are directly related (which is a required transfer for anyone closer than 2nd cousin) and have tried to contact the manager.

Good luck.

p.s. - the reason most turn off messaging is because they get bombarded with messages from people that should be submitted through the editing process. Also, some people can be pestiferous or downright rude - especially if their edit didn't get accepted. I have messaging on but that's because I only manage memorials that are for family. All others that I create I eventually transfer to FindAGrave. If folks want to differ with what I provided they can use the edit function or take over management (FindAGrave will transfer to anyone).

That's also why I made all my Ancestry trees private. People were frequently adding my direct relatives to their trees and wouldn't respond to my attempts to contact and correct them. They also, of course, copied all the photos. It was just irritating.

Thanks, I'll wait it out a bit and see what happens. The weird part is, I can't prove I'm directly related to the person in question although it is very likely. However, I can prove direct relation to the deed holder of the plot.

 

[John Winn]

Thanks, I'll wait it out a bit and see what happens. The weird part is, I can't prove I'm directly related to the person in question although it is very likely. However, I can prove direct relation to the deed holder of the plot.

Well, unfortunately who owned or owns the plot or stone doesn't affect one's ability to create or manage a memorial. Anyone may make a memorial or post photographs. If you put something out in public view then anyone may photograph it (or use information in a published obit). This has been a long-time issue for FindAGrave as many are very upset when they discover a memorial for their recently-deceased family member and they can't get it removed. The rules changed not long ago to now give direct relatives some control but if you aren't one of those then you don't get any special consideration.

And in the strictest legal sense you may not be the owner of any of the plots or the markers. How that works is different in different states but most have some kind of inheritance law that says who gets burial plots if such weren't left in a will. In Oregon it goes to the spouse, then to the children (in order of birth), then to the spouses of the children (in order of marriage). After that it's legally abandoned. Same is true of the stones themselves. Those are the private property of whoever purchased them. If they don't leave them in their estate then they are just legally abandoned after the death of the purchaser (who often wasn't the person interred).

I only mention all of that because I find it kind of interesting and, having volunteered in several old cemeteries, I've come to know how these things work (well, in Oregon). It was common to have somebody show up who was somebody's great niece or something and demand that their husband be buried in the "family" block. Or they wanted to install a stone or a bench or such or remove one or plant a tree. Nope.

 

[Story]

For what it's worth, I've seen duplicate entries on FindAGrave with different managers.

 

[BCS1973]

@John Winn, thanks. The person at the Diocese of Philadelphia I spoke to gave me a similar the order of procession. He added that at the "abandoned" point, it was first come first serve for direct descendants if any spots were left.

 

[John Winn]

For what it's worth, I've seen duplicate entries on FindAGrave with different managers.

You can report duplicates (on the edit page) and those will get resolved. What happens is that whoever's memorial was created first keeps management but all the info is blended and reduced to just one record. FindAGrave is usually pretty quick about it (sometimes almost immediately) but it depends on if the duplicate is obvious or if there's some question which requires review.

Some folks just don't know the system and will go out and take some photos and create memorials without checking to see if one already exists. It's a pain but just the nature of something left open to the general public.

 

[John Winn]

@John Winn, thanks. The person at the Diocese of Philadelphia I spoke to gave me a similar the order of procession. He added that at the "abandoned" point, it was first come first serve for direct descendants if any spots were left.

My pleasure. That's interesting that they'd just let any descendant claim a spot. I suppose the church can manage their property however they feel like it (even if not actually legally required to do so).

In some European countries (I know Germany and France) one rents a burial space and if someone fails to make the payment they dig up the remains and put them in a common grave and resell the space. There's been several times when somebody asked me what I was doing when working on a stone and I've answered that the family quit paying rent so I was digging them up (but quickly admitted it was a bad joke). Sometimes Bad John gets control.

 

[BCS1973]

...In Oregon it goes to the spouse, then to the children (in order of birth), then to the spouses of the children (in order of marriage). After that it's legally abandoned. Same is true of the stones themselves. Those are the private property of whoever purchased them. If they don't leave them in their estate then they are just legally abandoned after the death of the purchaser (who often wasn't the person interred).

I only mention all of that because I find it kind of interesting and, having volunteered in several old cemeteries, I've come to know how these things work (well, in Oregon). It was common to have somebody show up who was somebody's great niece or something and demand that their husband be buried in the "family" block. Or they wanted to install a stone or a bench or such or remove one or plant a tree. Nope.

Do you know if the burial locations in the plot typically have any significance? The reason I ask is because there are several characters in the plot that we don't know definitively what, if any, relation they are. The plot layout reads like this:

East Margin
Ellen 48 years Buried 1857 (possibly the mother of the deed owner) First Occupant
Ellen 9 months buried 1870 (daughter of the deed holder) Third
Catherine 3 years buried 1875 (daughter of the deed holder) Fifth
Ellen 40 years buried 1891 (possibly sister, sister-in-law, or cousin?? to deed holder) Eighth
2 East
Mary (different last name) 30 years old buried 1859 (Relation unknown) Second occupant
Patrick approx 41 years Buried 1883 (Deed Holder) Seventh
2 West
Frederick 15 years buried 1876 (appears to have bee an orphan of somoene) Sixth
Space for one more
West Margin
Anne 3 years buried 1915 (Grandaughter of deed holder) Ninth
William (another different last name) 56 years buried 1871 (unknown relation to deedholder) Fourth
Space for one more

His widow, Catherine, ultimately ended up purchasing a plot in another cemetary closer to their home in 1889 following the accidental death of their youngest son. I assume because space was running out. She never re-married and is interred in the other plot with 4 of her children and a grandchild.

 

[John Winn]

I don't know but I've seen cases where the family apparently didn't think they needed all the spaces and sold some and several where they allowed friends - or acquaintances who didn't have any means - to be buried in their block. The orphan you note might fit the last example. I now believe that every old cemetery has it's share of mysteries.

One thing you might do is get a month's subscription to newspapers.com and look for obituaries for all of those people. Sometimes they provide useful information about identity and circumstances of the death that might give you a clue.

 

[BCS1973]

One thing you might do is get a month's subscription to newspapers.com and look for obituaries for all of those people. Sometimes they provide useful information about identity and circumstances of the death that might give you a clue.

Thanks, I actually did that. Unfortunately, the orphan was the only one who made the papers prior to 1889. Apparently, he was a little bit of a trouble maker.

 

[Gary Morgan]

One thing you might do is get a month's subscription to newspapers.com and look for obituaries for all of those people. Sometimes they provide useful information about identity and circumstances of the death that might give you a clue.

Or you might try the Library of Congress's FREE searchable online database of old news papers, Chronicling America. It's a little unwieldy, (take my advice and use the "Advanced Search" option), 6but it's also HUGE.

Chronicling America | The Library of Congress

Search results 1 - 40 of 3194579.

chroniclingamerica.loc.gov

194 years since my family left Scotland, but the gene for "thrift" is still strong....