Projectiles For Reenacting

[oiffirefighter]

I'm looking to make bullets i can load and shoot in firing demos a living history. Something that closely resembles a Minie ball and helps the cartridge retain its shape. but comes apart or disintegrates upon firing. These WILL NOT BE FIRED towards people. I'm kind of thing a cornstarch slurry into a Mould and let harden. Any other ideas or suggestions?

 

[Story]

 

[oiffirefighter]

View attachment 497691​

If you read the whole post you will see in big capitol letters WLL NOT BE FIRED AT PEOPLE

 

[Story]

If you read the whole post you will see in big capitol letters WLL NOT BE FIRED AT PEOPLE

Best of luck.

 

[RedRover]

Firing any kind of a "projectile" is a bad idea for living history, whether its a lump of starch or a bullet, unless you are at a gun range.

National and State parks, for example, have very specific rules about this, and I've found its best to stick with them on any public setting.

However, more direct to your question, I have seen folks make historically accurate replica cartridges, string and all, for the purpose of blank firing living history loading demonstrations, but instead of any kind of ball or solid object, has perhaps a couple sheets of tissue paper stuffed in the head so the powder charge and all gives the exact size...

An original .58 minie cartridge...

The only negative with this, when blank firing, and perhaps ramming such a "stuffed" cartridge, is it adds to the burning paper fragments on firing considerably, so I can't recommend it.
Since I do most of my living history firing out of doors, and grass fires ruin the moment, I SHOW the public a cartridge like this (filled with sand), then replace it before going through the loading, and when going through the loading procedure, take out a simpler re-enactment type cartridge (no string, no tissue ball), tear and load...

To ram or not to ram the paper must be considered.

Some facilities allow for a simple living history firing demonstration loading the paper, and ramming, etc. But that would depend upon the rules of the site, park, museum, etc. Some don't mind demonstrating the rammer but don't want the paper down the barrel. I have also been to some that don't want us to either drop in the paper, or even use the rammer in blank demo. firing, so after charging cartridge there, we just go through the motions without drawing rammer, etc., and describe its use.

Consult the site on any rules on the subject, if any. Otherwise act with foremost discretion.

Of course it is not necessary to fire anything to demonstrate the loading methods of the period arms, and one can just go through the motions while describing them... Works pretty well, and you don't have to clean your gun.

 

[bankerpapaw]

Best of luck.

Accidents happen!!!

 

[Dan Kohli]

You might want to take a look at the blanks from Gimcrack and Bunkum.

Products | Gimcrack & Bunkum

www.gimcrackandbunkum.com

 

[7thWisconsin]

Really, I don´t think there´s anything you can fire out of the barrel of a musket, using black powder as a propellent, that´s going to be safe for any reenactment or living history demonstration. Most, if not all, have some line in the event regulations prohibiting ammunition. I´m sure this would end up falling under that regulation after a great deal of awkward and unpleasant conversation. I think it´s pretty much a non-starter. However, I have an alternative that might be acceptable. Black powder residue flies for quite a ways from the muzzle, and is still pretty hot. Hot enough to burst a balloon. Helium balloon tied to a brick 10 yards from your muzzle... you should be able to burst that. Or a regular balloon tied to a frame of some sort, or a tree limb, since helium is getting in tight supply.
In a firing demonstration, a blank cartridge with the wadding does a pretty good job of demonstrating the ¨oomph¨ factor of the muzzle-loading musket. However, if you want to add some ¨wow¨ target effect, this might be a way to achieve that safely.

 

[thomas aagaard]

You might want to take a look at the blanks from Gimcrack and Bunkum.

Products | Gimcrack & Bunkum

www.gimcrackandbunkum.com

was about to link to the same.

The cartridges here are a special order he made for me filled with lead bullets and foam. To show people how they look and weight.

And the other way around. With a bullet made up of cornfoam.. ready to be filled with powder.

If rammed with the paper the "bullet" mostly survive, but rammed without the paper it mostly burns up.
It fly like 2-3m so less than the distance the burning powder can cause issues.

If I was using something like this in a breechloaded gun (so no use of a ramrod) I would have no issue firing it toward a "enemy" at a proper distance.

The big issue is the use of the ramrod.
And the somewhat bigger danger of fire so it depend on the weather and ground...

 

[thomas aagaard]

Me using one of his blanks. (in this case I remove the bullet from the paper and only ram the bullet)

They do improve the experience since I can remove it from the paper, ram it and it result in a bit of recoil and the sound is louder.

So the safety issue is not the cornbullet... but the use of the ramrod.

and they sure look better than the usual white printer or newspaper one I used earlier.

 

[johan_steele]

Having been at an event where I watched wonder wad come flying through the air at me and once having had my sack coat set afire because of a jackass with a pistol. All I can say is don't. Just don't.

As a former safety officer at events I can guarantee you that a responsible one of us would have some powerful words with you if we found any kind of projectile. Depending on the event it would lead to your ejection.

Other events all ammo was to be turned in, inspected and then issued out. That at least helped weed out the Pyrodex and shoulder cannon users.

For display purposes you have been given some excellent suggestions.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Having been at an event where I watched wonder wad come flying through the air at me and once having had my sack coat set afire because of a jackass with a pistol. All I can say is don't. Just don't.

I would argue that the combat distance is the issue... and the use of pistoles in general.
(that is why Iam allergic to dismounted cavalry, csa raiders and similar, since they all tent to be the less disciplined types... and to love pistols)

If the two sides stayed at 100 yards then something like this, or simply ramming the paper would not be a issue.
That is, the item rammed is not... but the use of the ramrod still is.

When Iam in command I allways order the use of the ramrod when possible. (when there is no one in the receiving end and no hurry)
Because I rather have people who are well trained in a correct and historical "load in nine times" and then remind everyone not to use the ramrod when its not safe... than having people who only know how to do a "reenactment loading".

So as I see it this type of cartridge is fine for a firing demonstration.
just know that simply ramming the paper give much the same result in regard to sound and a small recoil.

But not for a "battle" with two opposed sides trading fire.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

I'm looking to make bullets i can load and shoot in firing demos a living history. Something that closely resembles a Minie ball and helps the cartridge retain its shape. but comes apart or disintegrates upon firing. These WILL NOT BE FIRED towards people. I'm kind of thing a cornstarch slurry into a Mould and let harden. Any other ideas or suggestions?

I'm gonna say this is a needlessly complicated idea.

If you wish to do firing demos for living histories, just ram the paper doing the manual of arms, firing in a safe direction with no one around, its simple and gets the idea across to public.

Now, if your wanting something to show the audience what a bullet looked like, just pass around a Minie Ball and or a fake paper cartridge and be safe and responsible about it. S&S Firearms sells fake paper cartridges for that purpose filled with black sand. But if your burning powder you keep those projectiles far and away from your musket, fake projectiles like you propose could get mixed with real ones.

Product Detail

Product Detail

Just keep it simple and above all SAFE!!!!!!!
More complicated something is, more likely an accident could happen!

 

[thomas aagaard]

Where in the world does anyone do live firing at a living history in front of crowds? Is there, never heard of them? I have an idea why don't you head over to Ukraine or the Gaza Strip, or on a boat in the Red Sea and do your live firing living history. Don't forget to get back to us and tell us how it went!

Using a Typical blank that is just a paper tube with powder do not allow the correct loading procedure, it looks wrong and sounds wrong.

And better can be done and there is sufficient interest that there are companies that sell them.

Gimcrack and Bunkum.
" First and most obviously, I leave out the lead! The bullet or ball in my blanks is replaced by a biodegradable, cornstarch based foam. (...) The foam substitute projectiles are SAFE TO RAM AND FIRE! The foam completely incinerates on firing, and is fully water soluble... "

Columbia River Arsenal
".58 Re-enactor Blank Cartridges. These blank cartridges are ideal for the reenactor who wants an authentic looking cartridge. These cartridges are made to the specifications outlined above. These look just like cartridges with live rounds, but the Minie Ball will be simulated using biodegradable materials. "

Paper Cartridge
"The "bullet" is simulated by a hard packed starch-based foam that holds the bullet shape, but will dissolve in water and is biodegradable."

---

So if you don't ram it and simply pour the powder and drop the paper cartridge, it still looks better, feel better and makes no different safety wise compared to using typical papertubes. And both paper and bullet will dissolve over time.

My experience with ones from Gimcrack and Bunkum is that when rammed the foam bullet fly like 2-3 meters from the muzzle and is mostly consumed in the process. (but not 100%)

The result is that there is no danger from the bullet. What makes ramming them an issue is the use the ramrod.
And you get the exact same issue if you just ram the paper.

So in short:
If you don't ram you just have something that looks better and feel better.
If you do ram the "bullet" you also get a bit better sound and handling. (compared to rammed paper)

And in both cases there is no difference in risk... the only reason why I don't use this type all the time is the cost of buying them and getting them shipped from the US.
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And just to add to it Gimcrack and Bunkum is making a total of 4000 rounds for the 160th Wilderness campaigner event.

From his PB page.

 

[7thWisconsin]

Rammed cartridges fire better and more reliably also. I´ve done any number of demonstration firing where the cartridge was rammed, and then firing was away from spectators. I have participated in tactical events where we used rammers. The numbers were small, everybody knew each other and distances were long. None of the ¨whites of their eyes¨ kind of firing we´re all used to. It was fine and I´d do it again, but once again the trust level was really, really high.
Given the muzzle velocity that you´re firing, I can´t think of any real value you´d get trying to fire something out of the muzzle in a demonstration. You can´t see it in flight; you´d have to rely on target effect and who is going to want to stand downrange and be your target?

 

[thomas aagaard]

Given the muzzle velocity that you´re firing, I can´t think of any real value you´d get trying to fire something out of the muzzle in a demonstration. You can´t see it in flight; you´d have to rely on target effect and who is going to want to stand downrange and be your target?

No one have asked for any sort of "target effect"... It is a requirement you invented.

 

[7thWisconsin]

No one have asked for any sort of "target effect"... It is a requirement you invented.

That is a good point! He did ask for something that helps the cartridge keep its shape. Sorry... overthinking...

 

[FedericoFCavada]

You might want to take a look at the blanks from Gimcrack and Bunkum.

Products | Gimcrack & Bunkum

www.gimcrackandbunkum.com

"Use as directed"

Products | Gimcrack & Bunkum

www.gimcrackandbunkum.com

https://www.gimcrackandbunkum.com/products/?swoof=1&product_cat=reenactor-blank-tubes&paged=1

 

[oiffirefighter]

was about to link to the same.

The cartridges here are a special order he made for me filled with lead bullets and foam. To show people how they look and weight.
View attachment 497713

And the other way around. With a bullet made up of cornfoam.. ready to be filled with powder.
View attachment 497714

If rammed with the paper the "bullet" mostly survive, but rammed without the paper it mostly burns up.
It fly like 2-3m so less than the distance the burning powder can cause issues.

If I was using something like this in a breechloaded gun (so no use of a ramrod) I would have no issue firing it toward a "enemy" at a proper distance.

The big issue is the use of the ramrod.
And the somewhat bigger danger of fire so it depend on the weather and ground...

this is kind of what I'm looking for. It i would be the only one on the field firing. spectators behind me. No one standing opposite of me. It would be used to show the method of loading the rifle. Would mainly be serve the purpose of helping the cartridge keep shape and be more resistant to deforming during handling. I tried cotton balls to test it but they came out a flaming ball out to about 20 feet. I would be firing it out of a Enfield using the Boxer type cartridge

 

[oiffirefighter]

To the guy that asked why i don't i just head over to *Edited*...etc. Because i have already done that as a US Marine, and PMC in Iraq. General Sherman was wrong in his Quote "war is Hell" Hell is just hell, War is much worse would have be more correct.