Pre war militia sword?

[major bill]

The sword was said to belong to Lewis Cass who is connected to the Civil War era and but also War of 1812. He claims that when Detroit was surrendered in the War of 1812 he broke his sword rather than give it up. If so, can anyone tell the approximate year of his sword which is on display at the Michigan History Museum? Can we know who made the sword?

 

[major bill]

Another sword on display at the Michigan History Museum. A British Cavalry Saber?

 

[kevikens]

Another sword on display at the Michigan History Museum. A British Cavalry Saber?

View attachment 177302

I have one that looks a great deal like the second one but with US stamped twice on the blade but no other markings.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

The first sword is what is generally referred to as a Ketland, but that in no way indicates it was made by the Ketland firm. This style was copied and used by many British, US, and German makers. If I had to guess, I would say it was a Birmingham product, probably from the early 1820s, although the plain stirup hilt might suggest a somewhat earlier date.

The second sword is the UK P1796 light cavalry saber which was also widely copied, e.g. the Prussian M1811 Blucher saber. A lot of similar style sabers were used by American militia elements, but I would be suspicious of any marked "U.S.". I'm not aware of any saber with ears on the grip with genuine "U.S." markings, but I've seen a number with the markings applied in modern times in an attempt to enhance their marketability.

 

[major bill]

The top sword was said to be Lewis Cass. He became Territorial Governor in 1813. I wonder if this sword is from his governor period not being a cavalry officer 1812-13. Cass claimed he broke his sword rather than surrender it in 1812. I am not sure this truly happened or not. He could well have obtained a new sword before he became governor and this could be that sword.

I wonder if the museum would open the cases the swords are encased in for me?

 

[kevikens]

The first sword is what is generally referred to as a Ketland, but that in no way indicates it was made by the Ketland firm. This style was copied and used by many British, US, and German makers. If I had to guess, I would say it was a Birmingham product, probably from the early 1820s, although the plain stirup hilt might suggest a somewhat earlier date.

The second sword is the UK P1796 light cavalry saber which was also widely copied, e.g. the Prussian M1811 Blucher saber. A lot of similar style sabers were used by American militia elements, but I would be suspicious of any marked "U.S.". I'm not aware of any saber with ears on the grip with genuine "U.S." markings, but I've seen a number with the markings applied in modern times in an attempt to enhance their marketability.

I just checked that US sword of mine. It does not have ears. I have a Napoleonic Era British saber hanging near it that has the ears. Senior citizen recall

 

[hawknknife]

I have an identical eagle head cut down with a 15 inch blade, been told it is Confederate done. The leather scabbard has a crude lead throat ...been this way since day one.

 

[James N.]

Eagle heads like this were common on swords dating from around the War of 1812 and later. Often the best way to date them is by the blade: wide, curved blades like this one has were used by all officer ranks in all branches until around 1821 when new regulations called for infantry officers to use 1" wide straight-bladed swords. Unfortunately for deciding age, officers of militia (the bulk of all officers) continued to use whatever they pleased! I see no reason this wouldn't have been Cass' sword, most likely post-War of 1812 era.

 

[Glen_C]

Really?
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/pre-civil-war-sword.141243/

 

[gary]

The top sword was said to be Lewis Cass. He became Territorial Governor in 1813. I wonder if this sword is from his governor period not being a cavalry officer 1812-13. Cass claimed he broke his sword rather than surrender it in 1812. I am not sure this truly happened or not. He could well have obtained a new sword before he became governor and this could be that sword.

I wonder if the museum would open the cases the swords are encased in for me?

If the director/curator/conservator is not a member of The Company of Military Historians, you can ask and assert that you will share it with the Company for research. Everything you learn will be shared and goes into their curatorial file. Curators love the additional information. Ask.

Let me share a museum perspective. When I worked at an art museum we had a painting of the Southern Pacific Building on San Francisco's Market Street. There was a billboard in that painting that no one could explain except for one of my guards. Essentially it was a furniture store and that's store's motto was "confidence" in your purchases. He also told me that there were 40 other furniture stores and thus it was known as so-and-so and the Forty Thieves. It was transcribed for the curator who was delighted as it's a bit of San Francisco history that could easily have been lost. Oh, one funny thing is that the curator files and the docent files are two different things. Docents get most of their information from the curator, but sometimes they find other things to throw into their talks. The curator never goes into the docent files but relies on their own research and the research of previous curators.