Post war Lincoln

[Louisiana Jayhawker]

The nice quote provided by Buckeye Warrior now in contention above is an excellent example of Lincoln's brilliant Mind. He is essentially proposing voting suffrage for a class of negroes involved in soldiering and those who had some educational training. That number of these Folks are exploding at that time. He is clever to imply that the Radicals want the vote for "the colored man" which means a vote for all black men. This statement implies Lincoln's proposal is more conservative and limited which makes is more acceptable to the indifferent likely majority voters. This does not mean that Lincoln is in total opposition to the Radicals but does mean on this issue at that time Lincoln thinks the Radical position could not be approved by the voters. It is very interesting to point out the latter part in which Lincoln present the apparent available option he wants: to reject a state the admission to the Union or accept that state admission based on variables (likely the approval of the 13th​ amendment and negro voting right). This part tells us Lincoln will not be an Andrew Johnson and more in line with the Radical Republicans.

 

[archieclement]

The nice quote provided by Buckeye Warrior now in contention above is an excellent example of Lincoln's brilliant Mind. He is essentially proposing voting suffrage for a class of negroes involved in soldiering and those who had some educational training. That number of these Folks are exploding at that time. He is clever to imply that the Radicals want the vote for "the colored man" which means a vote for all black men. This statement implies Lincoln's proposal is more conservative and limited which makes is more acceptable to the indifferent likely majority voters. This does not mean that Lincoln is in total opposition to the Radicals but does mean on this issue at that time Lincoln thinks the Radical position could not be approved by the voters. It is very interesting to point out the latter part in which Lincoln present the apparent available option he wants: to reject a state the admission to the Union or accept that state admission based on variables (likely the approval of the 13th​ amendment and negro voting right). This part tells us Lincoln will not be an Andrew Johnson and more in line with the Radical Republicans.

It also tells us he certainly was not in line with radicals. I agree Lincoln is a wily one, as I said Lincoln is not a radical at all, he is neither an ideologue or a crusader, but a consummate politician willing to sacrifice what he believes here, to accomplish what he believes over there. His approach to any major change is going to be far more gradual and subtle then the radical vision......he is not going to endanger his vision of a speedy reunion with the south for suffrage, civil rights, or anything else. The radicals may see it as all one thing.....but Lincoln wont, he compartmentalizes and is willing to relent here, to gain there.

With Lincoln the question is simply priorities, and he will sacrifice the lessor for the greater priority. And everything he had said up till his death indicated a speedy reunion with the white south (reconstruction) was his top priority.

One of the greatest ironies to me, is past circumstances dictated he was viewed as a polarizing ideologue by south, when in reality I dont believe he ever really was.

 

[BuckeyeWarrior]

It also tells us he certainly was not in line with radicals. I agree Lincoln is a wily one, as I said Lincoln is not a radical at all, he is neither an ideologue or a crusader, but a consummate politician willing to sacrifice what he believes here, to accomplish what he believes over there. His approach to any major change is going to be far more gradual and subtle then the radical vision......he is not going to endanger his vision of a speedy reunion with the south for suffrage, civil rights, or anything else. The radicals may see it as all one thing.....but Lincoln wont, he compartmentalizes and is willing to relent here, to gain there.

With Lincoln the question is simply priorities, and he will sacrifice the lessor for the greater priority. And everything he had said up till his death indicated a speedy reunion with the white south (reconstruction) was his top priority.

One of the greatest ironies to me, is past circumstances dictated he was viewed as a polarizing ideologue by south, when in reality I dont believe he ever really was.

Disagree completely that he wasn't a crusader. He very early in his life recognized how evil slavery was and wished to see it ended. Over the course of his political career he repeatedly attacked the institution and when given the opportunity he help destroy it.

What you call wily I call pragmatic. He certainly put the end of slavery behind the goal of saving the union but he had to because of the border states.
He said as much in his letter to Horace Greeley. However, he ends that letter with his true feelings on slavery.


I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.

Lincoln met many times with black and abolitionists leaders. This help change his views on race.

Andrew Johnson met with black leaders once, and during that meeting explained to them that he was against giving blacks the right to vote because it might cause a "race war".

As Louisiana Jaywalker said Lincolns let them up easy policy would have been abandoned due to the terrorist activities of the former confederates against the freedmen. Much like his idea that strong union sentiment in the south would make the southern states give up secession was abandoned after Fort Sumter.

I am fairly certain if Lincoln has not been assassinated that blacks, and America, would be in a much better place now.

 

[archieclement]

Disagree completely that he wasn't a crusader. He very early in his life recognized how evil slavery was and wished to see it ended. Over the course of his political career he repeatedly attacked the institution and when given the opportunity he help destroy it.

What you call wily I call pragmatic. He certainly put the end of slavery behind the goal of saving the union but he had to because of the border states.
He said as much in his letter to Horace Greeley. However, he ends that letter with his true feelings on slavery.


I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.

Lincoln met many times with black and abolitionists leaders. This help change his views on race.

Andrew Johnson met with black leaders once, and during that meeting explained to them that he was against giving blacks the right to vote because it might cause a "race war".

As Louisiana Jaywalker said Lincolns let them up easy policy would have been abandoned due to the terrorist activities of the former confederates against the freedmen. Much like his idea that strong union sentiment in the south would make the southern states give up secession was abandoned after Fort Sumter.

I am fairly certain if Lincoln has not been assassinated that blacks, and America, would be in a much better place now.

Perhaps a more.gradual approach would have caused less resentment and less a lasting legacy, unfortunately one of those things we will never know.

 

[BuckeyeWarrior]

Perhaps a more.gradual approach would have caused less resentment and less a lasting legacy, unfortunately one of those things we will never know.

Any chance of a gradual approach got thrown out the window after Fort Sumter was fired on.

 

[byron ed]

...Lincoln would of excluded whoever voted, like the Radicals, so as to control the South Politically. South would of been subjugated with Lincoln...

Let's explore that -- what Lincoln the man hoped to gain by controlling the South Politically and subjugating it:

- The re-election to a second term? oops. He already had that, and a third term wasn't possible.

- Personal wealth? oops. He had not been able to pull that off in the four years of his administration, and nothing in his direction to his generals on terms for surrender would bring him any personal wealth.

- Political payback? oops. For what? The secession South had virtually handed him election to the Presidency.

- The satisfaction of seeing Davis run to ground? oops. He had clearly expressed his hope that Davis would just vacate.

- Enhanced freedoms for free slaves and blacks generally? oops. He clearly understood that would bring him nothing but headaches and problems for the entire remaining period of his administration, no favor to himself at all.

- Improved station as a Christian? oops. Lincoln didn't belong to any Christian denomination that could even recognize him for that. He pretty much had only ever invoked "The Almighty," representing no denomination whatsoever.

- To establish his moral superiority? oops. Lincoln had clearly turned down that opportunity several times in his career. Several leading moralists (some quite prominent abolitionists who considered themselves the Ne-Ultra of Morality) were profoundly disappointed for not being able to enlist him.

- To consolidate dictatorial power into the post-war? oops. Let's notice how Lincoln avoided filling out his cabinet with "yes" men, if we are to suppose that was his initial "bid to dictatorship."

- To publicly shame the people of the South? oops. Lincoln was born a Southerner, talked like a Southerner his whole life, married a Southerner and had supported several of his heritage Southern-born-or-resident Generals the entire war. And as we all know, Lincoln had never expressed ill towards the Southern people anyway. He never did that, meaning not once.

- To have a winter cottage in the sunny South? Well although he had never expressed it, that's gotta be it. How selfish, how evil that one man could so manipulate a nation of people to such low purpose!! ...Not.

 

[archieclement]

Not at all, there's many ways reunion could have took place, Lincoln's plan for forgiveness and a speedy reinstatement was certainly as much a possible path as the Radical one, and it's rather hard to say perhaps not more promising, as we know the radical version wasn't much a success.