Possible Ames Model 1840 Musician's Sword

[michaelmccormick88]

The inspector markings look correct and so do the U.S. and Ames Mfg. markings (but I could be wrong). The brightness of the blade doesn't worry me nearly as much as the brass though.

The oxidation on the brass makes me wonder if it's not authentic though. I'd expect a more even patina, and not these brown splotches which seem to be indicative of high-nickel brass. Anybody have some information or thoughts on this piece?

If this sword is authentic (https://www.americancivilwarforum.com/a-genuine-civil-war-sword-117234.html), the patina on the brass handle appears to match that found on the sword that I own.

From what I understand Federal musician swords are dime a dozen so there are probably less fakes of them... but I've never seen one with brass patina like this.

 

[UCVRelics]

Its hard to see from the photos, what is the date stamp an inspectors initials? It appears to have been plated at sometime which would account for the gold colored flaking.

 

[mofederal]

I like the sword, and I have seen a few before. It is still a nice looking piece.

 

[michaelmccormick88]

Its hard to see from the photos, what is the date stamp an inspectors initials? It appears to have been plated at sometime which would account for the gold colored flaking.

I thought it was flaking, but its so seamless I'm not certain that is the case.
Markings are "Made by AMES MFG CO CHICOPEE" with a tiny image of a sword vertical next to it, and on the reverse "US AHK 1864"
Scabbard had either a "ADK" or "AHK" on the drag plate.

 

[michaelmccormick88]

I like the sword, and I have seen a few before. It is still a nice looking piece.

Thank you. I may have paid $120 for it I think... nice tight hilt to blade fit, but I've always wondered about its authenticity. Regardless I enjoy having it in my office!

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum @michaelmccormick88 , nice looking piece, enjoy

 

[UCVRelics]

The AHK is Albert H. Kirkham who was an inspector from 1862-1864. The ADK is for AD King who was a long time US Army inspector. The vertical sword is a mystery could you post a closeup of that marking.

 

[michaelmccormick88]

Welcome to the forum @michaelmccormick88 , nice looking piece, enjoy

Thank you!

 

[michaelmccormick88]

The AHK is Albert H. Kirkham who was an inspector from 1862-1864. The ADK is for AD King who was a long time US Army inspector. The vertical sword is a mystery could you post a closeup of that marking.

Potato quality photo

 

[UCVRelics]

That's not an arrow its a beehive.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Its a good sword. What you are seeing is a Gold wash, or "Flash" which is wearing off leaving the brass beneath exposed to handling which is showing the normal discoloring. The reason you don't see any difference in the surface is because the Gold wash is only a few microns in depth.
J.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

That's a very interesting find !
Thanks for posting the photos.

Welcome to CivilWarTalk.

 

[michaelmccormick88]

Its a good sword. What you are seeing is a Gold wash, or "Flash" which is wearing off leaving the brass beneath exposed to handling which is showing the normal discoloring. The reason you don't see any difference in the surface is because the Gold wash is only a few microns in depth.
J.

So in your opinion this could be authentic then?

 

[michaelmccormick88]

Hah!

That's not an arrow its a beehive.

no kidding I see it now

 

[UCVRelics]

So in your opinion this could be authentic then?

Yes it is.

 

[michaelmccormick88]

Thank you for the insight everyone! I'm a new member, but a long time reader.

 

[Package4]

Thank you for the insight everyone! I'm a new member, but a long time reader.

Welcome from Maryland; I believe you have a very nice and original musicians sword, it is doubtful in my estimation that one would not "fake" a sword that has low value in the sword collecting venue. Not to say that this is not a valuable sword, but if one were to fake a sword it would be one of higher value; Confederate or Federal presentation.

Wow! What you paid for this sword is an absolute steal basic range that I have seen for these is $400-$650 with scabbard and add a premium for the Ames markings.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

That's not an arrow its a beehive.

Actually it's not an arrow, sword or bee hive, but the edge of the scroll on which the Ames address is placed. The Ames scroll mark was normally not well struck and is often partially or totally worn or polished away. Here is another example,

Your sword is totally legit and was a bargain. In addition to the gold-wash theory, the uneven patina could also be the result of a thin layer of lacquer which was sometime placed on brass parts to retard oxidation, parts of which have worn off exposing the metal to air.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Michaelmccormic - Always listen to Richard E. Schenk! His words of wisdom regarding swords are beyond reproach. The reason I said Gold rather than Lacquer is because you said you couldn't detect any transition on the surface where the bright color stopped and the dark color began. Over the years I have handled numerous metal items which had been lacquered and when it begins to wear or flake off I have always been able to feel a "step" where the flaking was. I believe the lacquer was usually applied a bit thicket on the metal items that were going to be handled so that it would last longer. Just my thoughts, and worth exactly what you paid for them!

And, welcome to CWT, one of the very best and most highly respected sites on the internet!
J.

 

[michaelmccormick88]

Thank you Richard and Jobe! Pretty awesome repository of knowledge on this site for history enthusiasts!