Point me to a thread or explain the "removed" thing....

[peteanddelmar]

I don't know what 5th cousin, 4 times removed means.

 

[Patrick H]

You are "removed" from your cousins with each generation of separation. For example, my first cousin's children are my cousins, too, but they are "first cousins, once removed". Their children will be my first cousins twice removed.

Now...as to that second or third cousin thing, you're going to need some help from someone else, because I don't get that, either.

 

[Barrycdog]

Technically we are all cousins many times removed.

 

[Elennsar]

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bridgett/cousins.htm

Your first cousin is the child of your aunt or uncle.

Your second cousin is the grandchild of your great aunt or great uncle. (If two people are first cousins, the children of each of the people will be second cousins.)

Your third cousin is the great-grandchild of your great-great uncle or great-great aunt. (Children of 2nd cousins, are 3rd cousins to each other.)

Your first cousin, once removed, is the child of your first cousin or is the child of your great uncle or great aunt. (See also REMOVED COUSINS)

REMOVED COUSINS: If two people are some type of cousins, but they are at different generation levels, then here is the way to compute their relationship.

1. • Count how many generation levels they are apart. This is the number they are "removed."
   • Start with the one at the highest generation level (the older level) and count how many generations up you must go to find the brothers or sisters that are the ancestors of these cousins. This is the "FIRST" or "SECOND" or "THIRD" part of the cousin relationship.

So (using the names of my family).

Joe is my first cousin zero times removed. He's my mother's brother's son, or my uncle's son.

If Robert - my grandfather's brother - had kids, they would be my second cousins (once removed).

 

[Al Murray]

It is the same thing as you explained, just carried down the generations. A pair of first cousins have the same grandparent, second cousins have the same great grand parent (and so forth) down to fifth cousins who have the same great-great-great-great grandparent. A fifth cousin, four times removed is a the great great grandchild of one's fifth cousin - a fifth cousin with four more generations of separation from the common ancestor. Technically. However in common usage a first cousin once removed is often called a "second cousin", a first cousin twice removed is called a "third cousin" but this is colloquialism and not technically right.

There is no "great" in the first two generations of separation (child, grandchild, great-grandchild, etc). A nephew is like your brother once-removed, your brother's grandchild is your grand nephew, or you are his great uncle. Your common ancestor is your father, your grand nephew's great grandfather.

Now, is that crystal clear or what?

 

[Al Murray]

When I started writing post 5, post 2 was the latest. Was I 20 minutes on my babble of an answer?

 

[peteanddelmar]

When I started writing post 5, post 2 was the latest. Was I 20 minutes on my babble of an answer?

LOL. You did good. The other day I got a alert that someone liked my post....while I was writing it! Totally true!

 

[Elennsar]

Nothing wrong with spending time on one's answers, especially on something that seems impossible to explain in plain English.

 

[Patrick H]

Well...I think we probably have the answer above, but as I said, it's way to complicated for me. Somewhere, I do have a chart that explains this thing very logically and graphically. I have no idea where my chart is at the moment. Anyway, it seems to get fairly complicated, doesn't it?

 

[diane]

I get confused by the way the relations are set up. Tribe isn't hard - the relationship is part of the person's name! For the most part, cousin is covered rather loosely by brother or sister - which are frequently the same. That's from back in the day when men had two or three wives - or women had two or three husbands, and if you died, a brother or sister married your spouse. Clans being units within a tribe get complicated because of cross-overs, and you have to be careful not to marry into your own clan - which can be surprisingly easy to do!

 

[peteanddelmar]

Well...I think we probably have the answer above, but as I said, it's way to complicated for me. Somewhere, I do have a chart that explains this thing very logically and graphically. I have no idea where my chart is at the moment. Anyway, it seems to get fairly complicated, doesn't it?

Where can I get the chart? Cause I'm only partly getting it.

My ex mom in law can prattle about it all (accurately) all day. She also dates everything by a birth, wedding, death, flood, tornado, existing birthday, funeral, car wreck, another flood, jail sentence (not her) or whatever. And she is DEAD ACCURATE. I get my son and ex-wifes birthdays mixed up cause their in the same week. LOL Oddly enough she is the one I am closest to in that family.

 

[Allie]

Where can I get the chart? Cause I'm only partly getting it.

My ex mom in law can prattle about it all (accurately) all day. She also dates everything by a birth, wedding, death, flood, tornado, existing birthday, funeral, car wreck, another flood, jail sentence (not her) or whatever. And she is DEAD ACCURATE. I get my son and ex-wifes birthdays mixed up cause their in the same week. LOL Oddly enough she is the one I am closest to in that family.

Someone posted a very good video about this recently. Anyone got the link?

Pete, draw an imaginary chart in the air in front of you. You know who your cousin is - the child of your parent's sibling. Now put your finger and thumb on you and your cousin. If you go down a generation with one finger, it's a removal - your fingers are further removed from each other. If you go down a generation with both fingers, so your finger and thumb stay the same distance apart, the number goes up.

 

[Nathanb1]

I get confused by the way the relations are set up. Tribe isn't hard - the relationship is part of the person's name! For the most part, cousin is covered rather loosely by brother or sister - which are frequently the same. That's from back in the day when men had two or three wives - or women had two or three husbands, and if you died, a brother or sister married your spouse. Clans being units within a tribe get complicated because of cross-overs, and you have to be careful not to marry into your own clan - which can be surprisingly easy to do!

Aw, diane....that happens all the time around here...and I'm pretty sure none of these folks belong to any sort of recognized tribe.

 

[Littlestown]

Where can I get the chart? Cause I'm only partly getting it.

You'd better not think about it for too long. You'll get a migraine!
http://www.genealogyintime.com/articles/the-key-to-understanding-family-relationships-page1.html

 

[diane]

Aw, diane....that happens all the time around here...and I'm pretty sure none of these folks belong to any sort of recognized tribe.

That's why introductions always include who's your mom, who's your dad? They always know, no matter whose name they've got...

 

[Al Murray]

I get confused by the way the relations are set up

It gets even worse when two brothers marry two sisters. My grandparents had the same great grandfathers twice. So they were double second cousins, which meant they were genetically first cousins. If two double first cousins marry their offspring are technically second cousins but are genetically siblings. And if you do your family tree and find the same ancestor way back in two slots then you are your own cousin. I have one of those back in the 1700s so being my own distant cousin I am never alone! I always have my cousin along.

 

[Allie]

It gets even worse when two brothers marry two sisters. My grandparents had the same great grandfathers twice. So they were double second cousins, which meant they were genetically first cousins. If two double first cousins marry their offspring are technically second cousins but are genetically siblings. And if you do your family tree and find the same ancestor way back in two slots then you are your own cousin. I have one of those back in the 1700s so being my own distant cousin I am never alone! I always have my cousin along.

A guy who was in my ancestor's unit married his double first cousin, and her brother married his sister. So that would be double double first cousins. They have living descendants today who apparently don't have two heads or anything, so I guess it turned out all right, but it's still shocking to run into.

 

[Old Bay]

Don't be my cousin...

Yeah, I've been to some small towns where I've had the same thought!

 

[Al Murray]

They have living descendants today who apparently don't have two heads or anything

I don't think cousin marriage is as harmful genetically if it is not done over and over. 200 years ago it was common, and I have a genealogist cousin who makes a good argument that when researching an ancestor with a mother whose surname is not known the best place to start looking is among the father's first or second cousins. I have seen studies that claimed that in isolated areas where there are few choices and people marry second cousins over multiple generations their scores on standardized educational tests seemed to be lower. I wondered if the isolation may have played a part in this as well as the genetics. As I said my grandparents were double second cousins. From what I can see their descendants are all fine.

 

[diane]

It gets even worse when two brothers marry two sisters. My grandparents had the same great grandfathers twice. So they were double second cousins, which meant they were genetically first cousins. If two double first cousins marry their offspring are technically second cousins but are genetically siblings. And if you do your family tree and find the same ancestor way back in two slots then you are your own cousin. I have one of those back in the 1700s so being my own distant cousin I am never alone! I always have my cousin along.

We have that, too. Brother and sister marry brother and sister of another family, then divorce and marry other brothers and sisters! Or just have kids by the current boyfriend/brother-in-law - ten kids with all the same name and 9 fathers...or 10 kids with 9 different names and the same father... That's why the old timers kept all the information in their heads like it was holy scripture - mess up a generation and you're scrambled eggs! Every once in a while, though, you know who the kid is supposed to be - his paperwork says - but you squint your eyes and think, "Now...who does that boy look like?"