Discussion Pocket Pistols

[Doc Havana]

Does anyone know good sources of information about the use of pocket pistols in the Civil War? I have a repro of the 1849 Colt made by CVA and am considering acquiring an original. Incidentally, the repro is fun to shoot and reasonably accurate all things considered.

 

[C. Cash]

In Ashby's Cavalry Brigade(Humes Div. Of Wheeler's Corp) the men apparently carried these as a secondary back up pistols to their primary sidearm. Adjt. WG Allen of the 5th Tenn. Cav. calls them "four inch pistols" which would refer to the barrel length. He records an incident where the men had shot out their primary weapons and then all their "four inch pistols," and the enemy close upon their heels they were throwing their empty small pistol at their pursuers. This from The Reminiciences of WG Allen" from the Rhea County Historical and Genealogical Society.

 

[Pollaco]

There is a book that may help. "The History of the Colt Revolver from 1836 to1940" by Charles T. Haven and Frank E. Belden. Not sure of Haven's name but I think it's right.

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

Does anyone know good sources of information about the use of pocket pistols in the Civil War? I have a repro of the 1849 Colt made by CVA and am considering acquiring an original. Incidentally, the repro is fun to shoot and reasonably accurate all things considered.

Pretty sure I've seen tintypes with soldiers holding Colt Pocket 1849...but I don't have a link those pics. Of course, some of thise may have been props that the photographer used tovstage the pics.

 

[nc native]

Does anyone know good sources of information about the use of pocket pistols in the Civil War? I have a repro of the 1849 Colt made by CVA and am considering acquiring an original. Incidentally, the repro is fun to shoot and reasonably accurate all things considered.

You are whetting my appetite for a replica 1849 Colt Pocket pistol. I've got the 1851 Colt Navy and 1858 Remington New Army replicas but I think that pocket pistol would be a lot of fun to shoot. I've heard they are harder to load than the larger cap & ball revolvers because of the shorter loading lever. Has anyone had any trouble with that?

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

You are whetting my appetite for a replica 1849 Colt Pocket pistol. I've got the 1851 Colt Navy and 1858 Remington New Army replicas but I think that pocket pistol would be a lot of fun to shoot. I've heard they are harder to load than the larger cap & ball revolvers because of the shorter loading lever. Has anyone had any trouble with that?

Well, as a matter of fact, I have 2 of the Pockets, both with a 4 inch barrel. They are fun guns to shoot, but the rammer is rather short so it is harder to load due to less leverage (than the 6" version). I use a leather glove to make it easier on the hand, and it is manageable. One could also adapt somethin so that it fits over the rammer when you load so as to increase the leverage (I haven' tried making one yet). There are cylinder loading devices that exist, as mentioned in the following post (see Post#58 and #60):

Handgun Collection | Small Arms & Ammunition

The quality control and consistency of the LeMat was atrocious. They were heavy and the fit and finish was quite poor when compared to a Colt or just about anything. They weren’t half the pistol of a Kerr or Adams. There is a reason not many were imported or made. IMO they are grossly over...

civilwartalk.com

The biggest "deficiency" of the 4" barrel (in the original Colts)) is that there is virtually no rifling twist. Colt rifling was progressive, meaning it started with a slow twist and progressively got faster (twistier) as you got to the muzzle. But they didn't do that with the 4"....rather, it "seems" they took a 6" barrel (the last 2 inches having the fastest twist rate) and cut the last 2 inches off leaving only the slow twist rate portion. I doubt they actually cut it off, but I am trying to give you a visual impression. Most likely, the rifling machine was set up for 6" barrels and they didn't bother to adjust the machine when they were rifling the 4" barrel. The slow twist rate affects the accuracy of the 4" version of the originals. If you buy a repro, they use the modern rifling which has a relatively fast rate and is uniform for the entire length of the barrel, so that won't be an issue for you.

All that being said, the 4" version is the kewlest looking version, in my opinion (beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

 

[Doc Havana]

There is a book that may help. "The History of the Colt Revolver from 1836 to1940" by Charles T. Haven and Frank E. Belden. Not sure of Haven's name but I think it's right.

Thank you. I will track down a copy!

 

[Doc Havana]

You are whetting my appetite for a replica 1849 Colt Pocket pistol. I've got the 1851 Colt Navy and 1858 Remington New Army replicas but I think that pocket pistol would be a lot of fun to shoot. I've heard they are harder to load than the larger cap & ball revolvers because of the shorter loading lever. Has anyone had any trouble with that?

I remove the cylinder and use a loading fixture. See photo. The cylinder in the photo is for a Pietta replica Navy Colt. Yes, short-barreled revolvers are tough to load with their short levers. Some shooters slide an extension over the short lever to gain more leverage. The fixture allows one to load .31, .36, and .44 cylinders.

 

[Mk VII]

You could do a lot better than Haven & Belden, which is very old and has been superseded by newer works. The standard work is Colt's Pocket '49 by Jordan & Watt. Colt's Variations Of The Old Model Pocket Pistol 1848 to 1872 by Shumaker was the older standard.

 

[Pollaco]

You could do a lot better than Haven & Belden, which is very old and has been superseded by newer works. The standard work is Colt's Pocket '49 by Jordan & Watt. Colt's Variations Of The Old Model Pocket Pistol 1848 to 1872 by Shumaker was the older standard.

Many thanks, Mk Vll. I couldn't get my hands on either of the names of those publications but had faith someone would bring them to the attention of Doc Havana and the other readers on this forum.And I feel others will might yet submit a couple of other good reads on the subject. Once again. Thanks.

 

[DixieRifles]

I've heard they are harder to load than the larger cap & ball revolvers because of the shorter loading lever. Has anyone had any trouble with that?

I had a cheap replica with brass frame. That rammer could do a job on your hand— as it had that sharp spring latch on the tip. Some say to use gloves. I had a loading stand that I used for the "7-inch pistols" but I didnt use it with this short one. Maybe it wouldnt stand up in it.
I also tried a hollow dowel to slip over the rammer but dropped that idea.

The pistol's sights were so far off, I could only hit the target at ~15 feet.

 

[Mk VII]

Some shooters slide an extension over the short lever to gain more leverage.

Some users did that at the time, and bent the lever, which is why it is fairly common to find the lever has been replaced by the factory.

 

[Pollaco]

Hard to go wrong with a press or stand.They're cheap or easily made, I'm guessing the design is the same, just everything is smaller.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I have got a 4 inch Model 1849 Colt .31 caliber pocket revolver inscribed to a fellow named Young Marshall, who served in the 9th Georgia until he was wounded and then captured at Gettysburg.
The unit history for the 9th Infantry describes how after an accidental discharge in camp of an infantryman's pocket revolver, the Colonel in charge ordered the surrender of all the privately purchased pocket revolvers for the safety of his own men.
Also, here is a passage from the confederate memoir, "Company Aitch" "

"In addition, every one of us had his gun, cartridge-box, knapsack and three days' rations, a pistol on each side and a long Bowie knife that had been presented to us by William Wood of Columbia, Tenn." Sam Watkins, Maury Grays (1).

 

[14NYSM]

This is an engraved Baby Dragoon replica that I bought from EMF back in the early 1980s. Careful examination of photos of foot officers showed me that full-sized .44 cal pistols were not commonly carried by the officers that didn't ride a horse. Reenacting an officer of Lieutenant or Captain I always carried this revolver. It came with a brass frame, but I stained the brass with 44-40 gun blue and I silver plated the grip strap and trigger guard with a home silver plating kit. I show it next to my 1860 Army replica for scale.

 

[Doc Havana]

You could do a lot better than Haven & Belden, which is very old and has been superseded by newer works.

I had a cheap replica with brass frame. That rammer could do a job on your hand— as it had that sharp spring latch on the tip. Some say to use gloves. I had a loading stand that I used for the "7-inch pistols" but I didnt use it with this short one. Maybe it wouldnt stand up in it.
I also tried a hollow dowel to slip over the rammer but dropped that idea.

The pistol's sights were so far off, I could only hit the target at ~15 feet.

i tracked down a commercially available loading lever. Slixsprings.com sells a SlixHand for $20.00. Some revolvers (3 inch barrel etc.) may require beveling the mouth of the tool, easy simple mod.
.

Thank you, that is most helpful. Doc.

 

[Story]

am considering acquiring an original.

For your reading edification

Another M.1849 Colt Pocket Pistol! | Small Arms & Ammunition

Remember the old potato chip commercial from the 1950's or 60's - Bet you can't eat just one!? That seems to be a sort of theme with my "collecting" as well, as can be seen here. Last month I posted photos of a well-used and much-repaired M.1849 Colt Pocket Pistol I found at the monthly Canton...

civilwartalk.com

 

[Mark A]

I know of no definitive references that study the use of pocket caliber revolvers during the Civil War. There are blurbs in company and manufacturer's records about the use and sales of pocket revolvers but those are few and far between. Company I of the 9th Michigan Infantry privately purchased 10 shot Walch pocket revolvers. It met with mixed reviews. The Union Defense Committee bought 50 Colt pocket revolvers and turned them over to the New York Navy Yard. When discussing pocket revolver use during the War it's more important to remember that officers were, for the most part, required to provide their own sidearms. Martial caliber (36 & 44) revolvers were scarce and deemed heavy to carry on a daily basis. Many officers opted for pocket designs due to their smaller caliber and light weight.

If you aren't dead set on buying an original Colt pocket there are several other maker's percussion revolvers that can be considered, many of them are Colt lookalikes. The firms of Bacon, Cooper, Manhattan and Nepperhan come to mind. Although not exact copies of the Colt 1849 each followed the basic design of the Colt. The Manhattan pocket revolver even had a stagecoach holdup scene on its cylinder.

Bacon Pocket

Cooper Pocket

Nepperhan Pocket

Manhattan Pocket with stagecoach scene.

The Manhattan pictured above is inscribed on its trigger guard to H M Phelps. Phelps' rank, name and unit designation are also found handwritten in faded pencil inside the right hand grip. Phelps was a white officer -- lieutenant (later captain) with the 9th USCT.

There were literally thousands of pocket caliber revolvers used during the War. Some were very popular and many were by obscure makers, all can undoubtedly lay claim to interesting Civil War stories.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I know of no definitive references that study the use of pocket caliber revolvers during the Civil War. There are blurbs in company and manufacturer's records about the use and sales of pocket revolvers but those are few and far between. Company I of the 9th Michigan Infantry privately purchased 10 shot Walch pocket revolvers. It met with mixed reviews. The Union Defense Committee bought 50 Colt pocket revolvers and turned them over to the New York Navy Yard. When discussing pocket revolver use during the War it's more important to remember that officers were, for the most part, required to provide their own sidearms. Martial caliber (36 & 44) revolvers were scarce and deemed heavy to carry on a daily basis. Many officers opted for pocket designs due to their smaller caliber and light weight.

If you aren't dead set on buying an original Colt pocket there are several other maker's percussion revolvers that can be considered, many of them are Colt lookalikes. The firms of Bacon, Cooper, Manhattan and Nepperhan come to mind. Although not exact copies of the Colt 1849 each followed the basic design of the Colt. The Manhattan pocket revolver even had a stagecoach holdup scene on its cylinder.

Bacon Pocket
View attachment 429737

Cooper Pocket
View attachment 429738

Nepperhan Pocket
View attachment 429739

Manhattan Pocket with stagecoach scene.
View attachment 429740
View attachment 429741
View attachment 429742
View attachment 429743

The Manhattan pictured above is inscribed on its trigger guard to H M Phelps. Phelps rank, name and unit designation are also found handwritten in faded pencil inside the right hand grip. Phelps was a white officer -- lieutenant (later captain) with the 9th USCT.

View attachment 429760
View attachment 429761

There were literally thousands of pocket caliber revolvers used during the War. Some were very popular and many were by obscure makers, all can undoubtedly lay claim to interesting Civil War stories.

What he said.
If Mark A says it, I believe it.