Pistol Converted to a Rifle?

[General Casey]

So this morning I attended a Civil War swap.meet at the Hartsuff GAR Post in Rockland, Massachusetts. Essentially a bunch of reenacting units, sutlers, and collectors, as well as the local historical society and a paranormal group, had small displays set up with lots of items for sale (I may or may not have walked away with a stack of books).

One of the displays had a pistol (I'm not a weapons expert so I couldn't say what model/year it is) that apparently was converted to a rifle. Essentially, picture a Colt Army Navy revolver with a large musket butt attached to the rear. I've never seen this and wondering if anyone else has seen something similiar.

 

[UCVRelics]

So this morning I attended a Civil War swap.meet at the Hartsuff GAR Post in Rockland, Massachusetts. Essentially a bunch of reenacting units, sutlers, and collectors, as well as the local historical society and a paranormal group, had small displays set up with lots of items for sale (I may or may not have walked away with a stack of books).

One of the displays had a pistol (I'm not a weapons expert so I couldn't say what model/year it is) that apparently was converted to a rifle. Essentially, picture a Colt Army Navy revolver with a large musket butt attached to the rear. I've never seen this and wondering if anyone else has seen something similiar.

Colt made a shoulder stock for some of their military pistols. Did it look like this?

 

[General Casey]

Colt made a shoulder stock for some of their military pistols. Did it look like this?
View attachment 468089

Yes. What was the purpose of this?

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

That's a real good question, I think even back then people wondered about that. It wasn't very popular or particularly useful. There have been some modern reproductions of those made. They're not very useful either, just sort of interesting. You can't put the other hand out in front to steady it unless you like being burned.

 

[scooter748driver]

Well, Lee Van Cleef made good use of it in For A Few Dollars More

 

[Dan Kohli]

Yes. What was the purpose of this?

That's a real good question, I think even back then people wondered about that. It wasn't very popular or particularly useful. There have been some modern reproductions of those made. They're not very useful either, just sort of interesting. You can't put the other hand out in front to steady it unless you like being burned.

I do believe that they were intended to be use artillery drivers, light cavalry, and possibly dragoons. These soldiers were already equipped with pistols and mostly lacking in long arms. They were likely an attempt to make up for the pistol's deficiencies when these horse soldiers were fighting on foot.
It's similar to the those artillery Lugers

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

That's an interesting picture - he seems to be sighting - but the revolver isn't cocked, his finger isn't on the trigger, and his thumb is in the way of the sights.
His fingernails are too clean too!

 

[scooter748driver]

That's an interesting picture - he seems to be sighting - but the revolver isn't cocked, his finger isn't on the trigger, and his thumb is in the way of the sights.
His fingernails are too clean too!

I couldn't post the video clip, just tried to show it's use. Right after he cocks the pistol and kills the bad guy a long ways down the street.

 

[Dave D]

According to "Civil War Carbines, Volume II, The Early Years" by John D. McAulay, "Colt's third model dragoon with breech attachment (shoulder stock) along with his M1855 carbine was tested at the Washington Arsenal on February 18, 1858." "The Board concluded that both the Colt pistol with breech attachment and the carbine were superior to any small arms currently in cavalry service and recommended: 'That Colt's pistol (with breech attachment) and ammunition be adopted for the cavalry service; and that each trooper be furnished with two pistols, adjusted to the same breech, the barrel of each pistol to be eight inches long, of the calibre of the army revolver. ...That one pistol be worn on the right side of the soldier, in a pouch attached to the sabre belt, and the other in a holster on the right side of the saddle; and that the breech attachment be carried in a saddle pouch attached to the left side of the rear of the saddle.'.

Secretary of War John Floyd, ordered 924 caliber .44 Third Model Dragoons with 462 detachable shoulder stocks from Colt on 28 June 1858 at $50.00 per set.

These revolvers were issued early in 1859 to five companies of the 2nd Dragoons, under the command of Major Charles May on duty in California.

 

[bayonet]

Colt made a shoulder stock for some of their military pistols. Did it look like this?
View attachment 468089

and finding an original goes for top $$$. I've probably only seen 2 or 3 for sale in my life time.

 

[DixieRifles]

That's an interesting picture - he seems to be sighting - but the revolver isn't cocked, his finger isn't on the trigger, and his thumb is in the way of the sights.

He doesnt want to make the mistake Alex Baldwin did!!

Odd. Lee is shooting a Colt conversion that shoots metallic cartridges. But in "The Good, The Bad & The Ugly", he uses a cap & ball Remington. I guess that is why he lost his duel with The Man With No Name.

 

[Old Soldier]

The shoulder stock was created for better shooting on horseback, rather than use on foot. The accepted dismounted shooting stance was side on to your opponent/target with the pistol in the 'pointing hand' a la duelist (smaller target!). Some advocated a straight arm, but many pistol sights indicate a better sight-picture with a bent arm and many illustrations of the time also show this. This bent arm stance would be similar to the one ensured by using a shoulder stock.

The whole point of the shoulder stock was to steady the pistol and aid 'pointing' while the other hand was busy controlling the horse and the body was moving to counteract the horse! It was always intended to be used with only one hand. The carbine was also often used in a similar way - one handed. The traditional dragoon weapon was the short rifle, used dismounted.

Having said all that, the use depended on availability, training, practice and battlefield necessity. In Germany, for example, it was adopted for longer barrelled pistol target practice. It was never used as a general issue weapon in other Western countries, the carbine being the accepted firearm for cavalry, but they also preferred the sword/saber as the primary cavalry weapon.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Colt pitched it as a two-purpose gun. The cavalry could use it as a handgun, and by attaching the stock, use it as a carbine. Like many things modified to add a second use, the second use was not too useful. That darned stock was just more weight and in the way.
They are scarce. I did own a real Colt Dragoon stock (no Dragoon, just a stock), and I believe the survival rate was pretty low.
Charles Pate, author of the standard reference on the Colt 1860, is working on a book on the Colt Dragoon model, and I'm sure he will have a good deal of interesting info on these stocks.

 

[Dan Kohli]

And the someone looked at a Colt Revolving Shotgun and decided to make this…

 

[Old Soldier]

Colt also designed, patented and sold revolver rifles. There was never a 'two purpose weapon'. The longer barrel gave more accuracy and the larger calibre was preferred for the rifle BUT sold in a variety of calibers. Although they were used by the Pony Express, they were not very successsful. Gas leakage and a smaller charge were the main problem The gas discharge was a serious problem, not only for range and it also suffered from 'chain fire' whe ALL the chambers would fire off. This sent shards into the face and hands of the firer because he was so close to the action (think about it!). They were used by 21st Ohio Volunteer Infantry, part of the Union forces at The Slaughter Pen (Battle of Murfreesboro) where the rate of fire impressed the Conferderate forces, but they ran out of ammunition and had to surrender.

The most popular pistol was the 'Navy' in .36 caliber. (It was called the 'Navy' because of the ship engraving in the cylinder - not because it was a USN issue). The 'ARMY' was produced from 1860 onwards in .44 caliber and was used by the Army during the Civil War as it had greater stopping power. Many smaller caliber pistols were also privately purchased and used by all ranks.

 

[nc native]

The Colt Revolving Rifle would have been the only practical repeater that the Confederates had any possible use for since they didn't have the manufacturing capability to make cartridges for the other repeating rifles that were being used. I know this thread is about the Colt Pistol Conversion, however, I've always wondered if the South ever attempted to manufacture something similar to the Colt Rifle or any type of repeating rifle for that matter.

 

[Old Soldier]

The Colt Rifle appeared in 1855. There were plenty available at the time of the secession. It had it's problems and the best answer for the Confederates was buying in from Britain - which had no mass-produced revolver rifles. There were some available, but nowhere near enough to equip a unit. The good old Enfield Pattern 1853 from LAC was their best option - and they took it.

You have to bear in mind that the military thinking of the time was very retro. Both sides were equipped with a rifle musket that could kill at over 600 yards, but their troops were not trained in maksmanship and the rifles were often used in the same way as napoleonic muskets! Repeating weapons were very new, the single-shot breechloader being the most common, and few had the thinking to employ them in the Front line - or manage the logistics of a higher rate of fire (see above!). Most were issued to scouts and cavalry.

Mass production was relatively new too, and required a certain amount of tooling and skill - most of which came from the Union side. Even Enfield - who mass produced the Brititsh issue rifles and carbines bought their machinery from the USA - Union country. The only reference I can find for Conederate arms production states that machinery was bought from Britain!