personalized Weapons

[originalrebelyell]

Do you think men became attached to their issued weapons (I think you are making a point above about personal weapons), and if they did, how did they tell their from another when they look pretty much the same?

I think it was more common for the southern boys to mark them in some way.

 

[Southern Articifer]

Speaking of model 42 pistols, here's one bearing the name and rank of L.U.T. A. Breese. All I know at this time is that he was in the Union Calvary serving in the Western Theater and there is a tin type of him that will soon be reunited with his pistol. The lettering is worn but readable.

 

[originalrebelyell]

Very nice pistol.

 

[Package4]

It was against regulations to mark-up or deface US Military issued gear, was it done, on rare occasions, but was not the norm. Rifle slings, underside of cartridge/cap box flaps, underside of haversack flap and very small initials in obscure areas, under the brim of a forage cap.

Many Confederates came into the service with their own weapon and thus the practice/regulation really never took hold, they marked and carved at will, even when better weapons were issued or captured.

Collectors have a feel for carved stocks and look for additional signs of the piece being Southern, burn out by the bolster, severe pitting around the nipple as a result of the heavy use of niter and sulpheric acid in the manufacture of percussion caps. The North had ready supplies of Mercury while the South had a very limited supply and heavily mixed fulminate, which upon detonation, was extremely corrosive to both wood and metal.

Many carving were post war, when a prized weapon was being put away for posterity or handed down, others obtained battle honors.

In terms of recognizing ones weapon, no two stocks are the same and are readily recognized by a soldier, who lives with it daily. Soldiers found unique ways to make the weapon theirs

 

[James N.]

It was against regulations to mark-up or deface US Military issued gear, was it done, on rare occasions, but was not the norm. Rifle slings, underside of cartridge/cap box flaps, underside of haversack flap and very small initials in obscure areas, under the brim of a forage cap...

I imagine many members of Northern volunteer units "enlisted for the war" had a similarly cavalier attitude as their Southern bretheren regarding their issue items, at least depending on the attitude of their company and regimental officers.

 

[Specster]

It was against regulations to mark-up or deface US Military issued gear, was it done, on rare occasions, but was not the norm. Rifle slings, underside of cartridge/cap box flaps, underside of haversack flap and very small initials in obscure areas, under the brim of a forage cap.

Many Confederates came into the service with their own weapon and thus the practice/regulation really never took hold, they marked and carved at will, even when better weapons were issued or captured.

Collectors have a feel for carved stocks and look for additional signs of the piece being Southern, burn out by the bolster, severe pitting around the nipple as a result of the heavy use of niter and sulpheric acid in the manufacture of percussion caps. The North had ready supplies of Mercury while the South had a very limited supply and heavily mixed fulminate, which upon detonation, was extremely corrosive to both wood and metal.

Many carving were post war, when a prized weapon was being put away for posterity or handed down, others obtained battle honors.

In terms of recognizing ones weapon, no two stocks are the same and are readily recognized by a soldier, who lives with it daily. Soldiers found unique ways to make the weapon theirs

 

[Specster]

I had been to the Springfield Armory Museum in the past few weeks and they had a video which included British dignitaries being given a tour of the facility. If I understood the video correctly the stock was being cut on a lathe. The Brit asks the American, so every stock will be the same? He replies that as long as the blades are kept sharp "that is the key" the stocks will be exactly the same. I think those more knowledgeable than myself can tell you that this was one of the advantages of the M1851 Springfield as compared to the P53 Enfield - interchangable parts. I guess you could see variations in wood grain and knots, but I think the rifles were pretty much spot on. Also, not all the Union soldiers were brought up on a farm nor even in this country. The intracacies of a SOTA rifle may have been novel to many of them, Im not sure they were all that keen on design and operation.

 

[Specster]

I imagine many members of Northern volunteer units "enlisted for the war" had a similarly cavalier attitude as their Southern bretheren regarding their issue items, at least depending on the attitude of their company and regimental officers.

So I would imagine the regulation is still in effect, yet we also know that Enola Gay was painted on a B-29. Did anyone give a **** as far as the violation, at the time?

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

The pistol belonged to Capt. Sidney A. Breese. He actually enlisted as a Cpl. in the Kansas Rangers before getting transferred to the 6th Missouri. He would be wounded at Sabine Cross Roads and discharged. Capt. Breese would later be put in a biography of Connington's, "Faces of the Civil War."

Around 1900, "he was sidelined by a series of depressive episodes. Doctores attributed it his hemorrhoids, as he had no family history of mental illness. He spoke of "a cloud over his brain that would not let him think," and fretted that he was a burden to his wife. On a September day in 1903, the telltale signs of another episode came upon him, and he told a friend he would not stand another attack. He went into his office, put a pistol in his mouth, and pulled the trigger. He was sixty-six."

 

[Camp Randall Armory]

So I would imagine the regulation is still in effect, yet we also know that Enola Gay was painted on a B-29. Did anyone give a **** as far as the violation, at the time?

Apples and oranges. They were encouraged to paint bombers in WWII. Personalization weapons was not allowed in the civil war. Also, they did care, the company commander was responsible for the weapons in the company and was fiscally responsibly for weapons damaged or lost through negligence, and would pass that on to their Soldiers if they were responsible.

 

[Package4]

Companies during the war would have daily roll call and then a routine called "inspection arms", where an officer and or NCOs would inspect arms and accouterments, for fitness. Elaborate carvings and personalization would be quickly noticed and punished (US Army).

As a collector, I have found that almost all Southern arms that I have viewed have some type of marking/initials, while identified Northern pieces rarely have markings beyond a butt plate rack number. Certainly this becomes obscured with Federal issue pieces that were captured and marked by the new owner.

No doubt there were units that allowed or ignored such activity in the Federal Army, but these seem to be rare exceptions rather than the rule.

Southern cartridge and cap boxes with external carvings are quite normal, while you will be hard pressed to find a war date Northern specimen with the soldiers name carved or marked on the exterior. The same goes for cartridge box straps and haversacks. Canteens and knapsacks seem to be exceptions, though most knapsacks viewed with markings are typically just unit identifiers with the soldiers name marked on the inside.

 

[Don Dixon]

Regarding the question on soldiers taking their arms home. Under the provisions of General Order (G.O.) 101, May 30, 1865, discharged Federal soldiers were permitted to purchase their arms and take them home with them. Muskets of all types, with or without accoutrements, cost $6.00. Spencer carbines, with or without accoutrements cost $10.00, while all other carbines and revolvers cost $8.00. Under G.O. 101, soldiers purchased 116,677 "muskets"; including 96,238 Springfields, 19,882 Enfields, and 557 "others." Two hundred fifty-seven New York soldiers, eight Illinois soldiers, and five Missouri soldiers bought their Austrian long arms. (U.S. Congressional Serial 1497, pp. 167-72; G.O. 101)

Some means of distinguishing one's own weapon from the others in the stack would have been desirable. I suspect that initials in the stocks probably came from that, despite what the regulations said about not defacing weapons. The more detailed embellishments probably were done after the war on a weapon carried home. But, marking arms wasn't unique to the Civil War. In Ordnance Went Up Front, Roy Dunlop described his experiences as an ordnance technician on the western front in Europe in World War II. He mentions that when his unit was reconditioning U.S. arms recovered from the battlefield a rifle came in with a photograph of the soldier's wife or girlfriend inletted into the stock. They didn't have any replacement stocks at the time, so they fixed it and sent it back out again with the photo still in the stock.

Soldiers did become attached to their arms. I can document several instances of individual soldiers carrying Muster 1854 System Lorenz arms in ".54" caliber on the March to the Sea when everyone else in their unit was equipped with Springfields or Enfields. Ammunition resupply clearly would have been a problem.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[Private Watkins]

I have an Enfield P53 with 1862/Tower lock (no Confederate markings) and what looks like "Wt. Bish" carved in the stock...

I don't know if carved during or after the war, and have no provenance at all to prove whether or not the carving is authentic, but civilwardata records indicate that there was a "Washington Bish" who served with Co. A of the VA 30th Battalion Sharpshooters. I have seen other soldiers with last name of Bish, North & South (e.g. William Bish...), but none with a "Wt." In the first name.... So who knows...

I like the piece regardless, and got it for a nice low price that had no "ID-premium" at all...

 

[ibgreen]

I was thinking about soldiers who bought weapons during the war - I understand that soldiers would by Spencers when they were available because it increase their chance of living (repeaters). I would imagine if you paid a few months worth of pay on a rifle you would want to be able to prove you owned it. I know most men were honorable but I have also seen some crazy thing happen when it comes to life and death situations. Even with the muzzleloaders, I am sure some were better than others. The Springfield Armory was pretty impressive is size. The British method of manuafacture invited more variation. I would imagine soldiers would try to switch rifles they felt werent working 100% or were "unluckey". I think I newbie, off a farm for the 1st time in his life, would not pick up on this too quickly.

Here is a very worn down receiver engraved private purchase Spencer M1860 rifle I have. Top script is Joseph Blackburn
Lower script is 5th tenn cav.

 

[originalrebelyell]

I like both of those guns. Pvt. Watkins I like that Enfield

 

[Mr. King]

Speaking of model 42 pistols, here's one bearing the name and rank of L.U.T. A. Breese. All I know at this time is that he was in the Union Calvary serving in the Western Theater and there is a tin type of him that will soon be reunited with his pistol. The lettering is worn but readable.
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You mean those were actually carried and used? They are beautiful pistols, but they were so obsolete by 1860, it's not even funny. I'd be as mad as a wet hen if I got issued that thing.

 

[Private Watkins]

Pvt. Watkins I like that Enfield

Thanks... I like her too. She's no beauty queen, but she suits me just fine..

Rear sight long gone, and ramrod lost somewhere along the way, crack in the stock, and the fore-stock has some damage and maybe been sanded, but she has character!

 

[originalrebelyell]

Very pretty my rear sight and ramrod are gone also.

 

[originalrebelyell]

I agree she has character I like the look of it.

 

[Private Watkins]

I agree she has character I like the look of it.

I guess ole Mr. "Wt. Bish" must have liked her too...