Over Shirts.

[James B White]

but have heard the term "smock Shirt" for some Northern reenactors shirts.

I've not heard that as a reenactor term, but I could certainly see it as a historic term, and it points out how these shirts were worn by working class men long before the war. Smock shirt goes back decades, almost gone by 1860 in its typical style, but I can imagine the name hung on for any shirt that could be untucked.

A Yankee man wearing something like the traditional smock, but it has no smocking and little fulness: www.flickr.com/photos/8026096@N04/7200322500/in/photostream/

The older style:
www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/an-old-man-in-a-smock-46795

 

[major bill]

The shirts worn by Rhode Island looked a great deal like the type of work shirts worn by farmers in America in the late 1700s and early 1800s. Shirts were worn as outer wear by firemen, miners and shanty boys (lumber jacks) before the war. For example the flannel shirts worn by some Minosota units looked much like the flannel shirts worn by shanty boys as they cut lumber. Sailors wore over shirts as well.

 

[photoman475]

Major Bill: I have to agree with you about the Minnesota units. The First Infantry went to Washington in red flannel, because that was the state militia uniform at the time-with black jeans. In other words, typical lumberjack's wear for the time. Richard Moe points this out in his Last Full Measure. I'm working on what my unit, the Fifth, got when they were sworn in in March 1862, since three companies were sent out to Forts Ridgely, Ripley and Abercrombie about three days later. That is going to require a trip to the Minnesota Historical Society for research; the digitized records I've been through haven't told me anything yet.

Perhaps you or someone else could answer this question. How common was it for the western Union units to have blue jeans, or any other kind of non-wool uniform pants, at any time while serving in the west?

 

[James B White]

Perhaps you or someone else could answer this question. How common was it for the western Union units to have blue jeans, or any other kind of non-wool uniform pants, at any time while serving in the west?

Unfortunately, I can't answer the question, but wouldn't jeans typically be at least partially wool, mixed with cotton? Or do you mean specifically only cotton-cotton jeans?

 

[photoman475]

While I mean jeans like are made today with modern materials, I don't know enough about what was considered a pair of jeans back then compared to today. I'm trying to determine this, as my impression is based on Company D, Fifth Minnesota, and the time they were assigned to Fort Abercrombie, D.T., from March 1862 to March 1863. This is my way of trying to keep the cost of the impression manageable. For example, my musket is an 1842 Springfield; that's what they had at Abercrombie and through Vicksburg.

 

[major bill]

I am not aware of any pre war uniform regulations for the militia of Minnesota. before the war Minnesota only had 12 companies of militia an they were said to be well uniformed. I would take this to mean normal militia uniforms for example the Saint Anthony Zouaves probably wore some type of Zouave uniform and the other companies uniforms more or less based on what the U.S. Army infantry, rifle, artillery and cavalry wore.

When the war started the small militia companies expanded to full size companies and many new men would have lacked the normal comapny uniforms. Minnesota could not secure uniforms from the federal government so purchased uniforms form Culver & Farrington and Farrington & Hughson both of whom among other activities traded with the local Indians. "The clothing was all, of course, of civilian origin, but of good quality. The shirts were woolen and of the kind preferred by Indians and lumberjacks; "checked red" predominated, but some were blue and others "very fancifully ornamented with crescents, stars, trefoils, etc." Two companies wore gray uniforms trimmed with black and the band was furnished a distinctive uniform. When Minnesota raised the 2nd regiment they received blue frock coats and pants and red flannel shirts with US regulation overcoats.

 

[major bill]

Frederick P. Todd in his book American Military Equipage 1851 - 1872 indicated the 5th Minnesota wore regulation U.S. Army clothing. Todd gives them Springfield Rifled Muskets starting in 1863.

 

[James B White]

While I mean jeans like are made today with modern materials, I don't know enough about what was considered a pair of jeans back then compared to today. I'm trying to determine this, as my impression is based on Company D, Fifth Minnesota, and the time they were assigned to Fort Abercrombie, D.T., from March 1862 to March 1863. This is my way of trying to keep the cost of the impression manageable. For example, my musket is an 1842 Springfield; that's what they had at Abercrombie and through Vicksburg.

Ah, okay. Jeans was mostly a name for a type of fabric then, originally typically wool weft, linen warp, then wool-cotton, then cotton-cotton like today. If I just read "black jeans" in the period, I'd guess a black version of the gray/butternut jeans that was common for southern uniforms, which is available in reproduction for reenactors, but you'd have to hunt a bit more to find it in black.

With no further information, I'd guess the pants would be cut on a typical period pattern, natural waist, buckle in back, etc, unlike jeans today.

 

[major bill]

Although I have posted this before I will post it again to show how much some Michigan shirts looked like Battle Shirt. These are the company commanders of the student battalion at the University of Michigan. Had I said that these were Confederate I think I could get away with i. some one already pointed out the "chests" were not issued in Michiagn as their chest pockets at at their waists.

 

[photoman475]

Major Bill: You're right about the 5th getting re-equipped in 1863. Grant ordered the unit to turn in its 1842s and were issued Springfields that were most likely captured from the CSA at Vicksburg.

 

[major bill]

Major Bill: You're right about the 5th getting re-equipped in 1863. Grant ordered the unit to turn in its 1842s and were issued Springfields that were most likely captured from the CSA at Vicksburg.

I am not a reenactor but because they were susposably issued regulation federal uniform I would go with sack coat and federal trousers. This is likely the most accurate. I can understand trying to save money, but the sack coat and federal trousers will allow you the most flexibility to reenact. In the end it would be cheaper to buy these than something you might have to replace if you decide to attend other reenactments. It would seem a sack coat, federal trousers and a forage cap and hat would set you up to participate in most reenactments, while your jeans might only be apporrate for some events.

 

[photoman475]

That is what I have been able to do, Major Bill. I don't have the federal trousers yet, having bought the sack coat, forage cap, musket and brogans for reenactments. I just bought two canteens instead of trousers because this past summer's experience with only one borrowed canteen for my son and I just wasn't enough. The next purchase is correct federal pants, just not sure when in 2016 that will take place.

Now, to add to the overshirt question, here's a quote from Bell Wiley's Life of Johnny Reb, p.114: "I had to load one my Hat and another my overshirt." Wiley's endnote for the quote is on page 371; from Jerome Yates to his mother on April 2, 1864.

 

[yellowthornoftexas]

Just picked up a "whatever we're calling them" shirt from a guy for $50.00. When it arrives, if I remember, I'll post a photo.

 

[Poor Private]

http://www.jamescountry.com/battleshirts.html

I have no idea how authentic (or not) these may be....but I see a photo referenced that sounds interesting.

http://www.civilwarvirtualmuseum.or...mpaign/thomas-issac-duvall-william-duvall.php

I purchased one of those battle shirts from James Country last fall at the Zoar Ohio event. I have been looking at them(battle shirts) for a while, since one of our units personas' is the 11th Missouri Co. F (confederate). Or Van Zooks Guerrilla unit.

 

[yellowthornoftexas]

James Country looks good

 

[Poor Private]

If you go to an event that he is at, he also does minor musket repair. At Jackson Michigan he is always busy from the moment he opens up his tent flap.