Old Confederate Money ?

[cannonjockey]

I based my initial statement on a simple Google search but now have linked several professional organizational sources which seem to back it up. I could have linked a half a dozen more but I figured 3 were enough

So far you have only responded in gainsaying which is not an argument. I'm no expert on this matter and I am entirely open to any expert sources you have to provide. However, just saying it isn't so hardly cuts it now does it?

Cheers

 

[Bur Oak]

I based my initial statement on a simple Google search but now have linked several professional organizational sources which seem to back it up. I could have linked a half a dozen more but I figured 3 were enough.

I'm sure that a Google search will allow you to find "several professional organizational sources" which back up the existence of Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and alien abductions.

Show me ONE source, someone who SPECIALIZES in Confederate currency, who backs it up. I've been collecting CSA currency exclusively for over 25 years. In that time, I've purchased and read the books, spoken to specialist dealers and other experienced collectors. Not once was rice paper ever mentioned. But among those who know little or nothing, It's gospel. The actual experts publish the best factual information available, they don't waste time debunking every crackpot rumor.

I read the stuff on your first link. It is full of information that was evidently misquoted to the point that it was false and misleading. The fact that something is in print somewhere doesn't mean it came down the mountain in Moses' back pocket.

 

[cannonjockey]

Once again gainsaying is not a valid argument and never has been. Trying to dispute what I linked by comparing those sources to bigfoot and alien abduction claims smacks of bad-faith argumentation and is not helping your case. They are not remotely the same but I suspect you know that.

If the information is false then provide me with some substantial documentation instead of just repeating claims that you don't seem to want to take the time to source.

I'm more than willing to accept new information if you are willing to provide it with sources. Even at my advanced age, I'm always trying to learn new things.

Otherwise, this will probably be my last response.

Cheers.

 

[Bur Oak]

If the information is false then provide me with some substantial documentation instead of just repeating claims that you don't seem to want to take the time to source.

I'm more than willing to accept new information if you are willing to provide it with sources. Even at my advanced age, I'm always trying to learn new things.

Provide me with contemporaneous documentation that the CSA used, or even had rice paper. I suspect there is none of that either. The "sources" you provided aren't sources. They provide no evidence to support their claims, they're just repeating something they heard elsewhere. If a lie is repeated often enough, people begin to accept it as the truth.

If you want to believe it, fine. Study the subject seriously for 20 years and get back to me. We can continue this conversation then.

 

[Pollaco]

I currently only have 3 books on the subject of Confederate Paper Money.In those 1040 pages no where can be found the words "Rice Paper". Red fiber paper, plain paper, water marked linen or rag paper, bond paper, even wood pulp paper is discussed but no rice paper.

 

[Bur Oak]

It's hard to prove that something which never existed -- never existed.

 

[R. Porter]

A quick check of Google Books provided the following two titles:

Confederate States Paper Money, Civil War Currency from the South by Arlie R. Slabaugh, 2012

Rice paper is mentioned in a discussion of a bank note numbered "49." There are no page numbers listed. It is mentioned in connection with a very specific and limited use by the Confederacy.

The Chemistry of Money by Brian Rohrig, 2020

States the Confederacy was cash strapped so they used rice paper; which make it sound as if there was a widespread general use of rice paper in making paper for currency.

I don't know how reliable either source is.

For what it's worth, I learned in high school that one of the crops of South Carolina was rice.

Also, gainsay was a vocabulary word in high school. That was so long ago I had to look up the definition again. I don't believe I've ever heard it used in an actual discussion since high school. It sounds archaic; perhaps if it is to be used anywhere in a discussion, a Civil War message board is the best place to use it.

 

[Bur Oak]

A quick check of Google Books provided the following two titles:

Confederate States Paper Money, Civil War Currency from the South by Arlie R. Slabaugh, 2012

Rice paper is mentioned in a discussion of a bank note numbered "49." There are no page numbers listed. It is mentioned in connection with a very specific and limited use by the Confederacy.

The Chemistry of Money by Brian Rohrig, 2020

States the Confederacy was cash strapped so they used rice paper; which make it sound as if there was a widespread general use of rice paper in making paper for currency.

I don't know how reliable either source is.

For what it's worth, I learned in high school that one of the crops of South Carolina was rice.

Also, gainsay was a vocabulary word in high school. That was so long ago I had to look up the definition again. I don't believe I've ever heard it used in an actual discussion since high school. It sounds archaic; perhaps if it is to be used anywhere in a discussion, a Civil War message board is the best place to use it.

I looked at both of the references you posted.

The Slabaugh reference was to notes numbered by Criswell as types 47 and 48. (Slabaugh had his own numbering system for types which differed from the more widely accepted Criswell system. He called these nos. 48 and 49.)

"Nos. 48 and 49 bear the erroneous imprint of Keatings and Ball, Columbus, S.C. instead of Keatinge and Ball, Columbia, S.C. The notes are not believed to have been printed by them. The use of these distinctive papers, rather than paper generally used for Confederate notes tends to indicate that these notes were originally prepared for some special use."

These two types are now believed to be totally bogus notes which had nothing to do with the Confederate Treasury. (They are now referred to as XX-1 and XX-2, separating them from the Criswell list.) It's not known whether or not they were even printed during the war.

The other reference was in a discussion of iron gall ink, not banknote paper. They did repeat the claim that the Confederacy used rice paper, but with nothing to back up the assertion. They described rice paper as "... a thin and almost waxy type of cheap paper." While much of the paper used for CSA currency was thin, especially by modern standards, none that I have seen could be accurately described as "almost waxy."

 

[Pollaco]

Not familiar with Brian Rorhig or his book. It sounds like an updated book but is it a reliable book?

 

[TucsonReb]

Didn't the CSA also use seaweed pulp paper?

 

[Pollaco]

Didn't the CSA also use seaweed pulp paper?

I read that they did (maybe), From England yet

 

[Bur Oak]

Didn't the CSA also use seaweed pulp paper?

Doubtful. The only references I was able to find were a list of items seized from a captured blockade runner and other people quoting that one source. The paper seized was made in England. I was never able to find anything else to suggest that such paper was being made in England in the 19th Century.

 

[Pollaco]

I read that they did (maybe), From England yet

Not specifically stated that it was but some paper was being made from seaweed in England and some Confederate currency was printed on paper from England.But that don't mean it was from the "seaweed batch" of paper.

 

[TucsonReb]

Not to be picky, but is there any way we can move this thread to the "Currency, Stamps, and other Collectable Papers" Forum? I think we should have all the info on notes like these in one place...

 

[Pollaco]

I didn't even look . What forum are we on anyway?

 

[TucsonReb]

"Relic Hunting and Collecting"

 

[Drumfish420]

How can you tell at a glance if Confederate money is authentic? Or can you? I have an antique shop close by that has several (Not on brown crinkly paper) and was thinking about grabbing a couple. Thanks!

 

[Pollaco]

That's the thing about Confederate Money, no 2 look exactly alike. Some people can tell the authenticity at a glance but I'm not one of those people. But I suppose we are talking in general and without seeing the notes. Look for handsigned signatures in brown ink.The gall ink was originally black but turned brown as it aged. The margins and edges probably won't be even. These were cut with scissors from a sheet of notes. Most of the time a sloppy cutting job was done. Please look at the backs. The folds show up there. Sometimes the gall ink has "burned" it's way through.There are several things to look for in each variety of notes but I really can't go into much detail here. I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than me shows up and gives you some more "pointers".

 

[Pollaco]

How can you tell at a glance if Confederate money is authentic? Or can you? I have an antique shop close by that has several (Not on brown crinkly paper) and was thinking about grabbing a couple. Thanks!

Usually the word Facsimile or Copy is printed somewhere on that note if that's what it is.Unfortunately counterfeits don't carry that warning.

 

[TucsonReb]

I advise investing in a cheap copy of some sort of Confederate Collecting book. I bought Pierre Fricke's 2008 book for cheap, and it lists all the types, albeit dated pricing and different rarity listings, but you can't go wrong. If the notes in question are pink or reddish in color, they are from 1864, and are relatively common, but are great display pieces and collection starters. If you go to the antique mall and snap some pictures and send the listed prices, we can help you decide which (if any) to buy.