Old Confederate Money ?

[MWood1841]

I was lucky enough to have known my great grandparents well into my late teenage years and remember this frame hanging near the office area of their old home all the way back when I was a small boy. When they passed, my grandmother handed down this frame to my Dad and he has since passed and now mine. I am afraid to take this frame apart due to age and the backing is held together by small nails. Also horrible, I see a small piece of tape that was used as a way to keep the bills in place I would assume. My question is, do these look like the real deal or fakes? I know fake confederate money (reproductions) were/are common. I'd love to try and get these out of the frame to further inspect, but just too scared both the frame and money will fall apart. The frame sits on display inside my great grandfathers wooden gun cabinet that I have in my den.

 

[Championhilz]

Modern reproductions unfortunately, the paper is all wrong.

 

[Gandycreek]

Modern reproductions unfortunately, the paper is all wrong.

Absolutely repos. I have a couple. I think they gave those out in Kleenex boxes years ago. Back around the time of the CW Centennial.

 

[JOHN42768]

Also the wood backing appears to be particle or press board which was not invented until 1887 in Germany

 

[cannonjockey]

When I was a kid, my family would always take a two week summer driving vacation just like the Griswolds in the Vacation movies.
I'm 77 now and would have been 10 to 14 years old when we took those regular summer trips. Anyway, we would always stop and tour one or two National battlefields and associated museums usually with a gift shop. Back then and maybe even still now the gift shops would have a display rack with packs of Confederate money, packs of Continental bills, and packages of important historical documents like the Declaration of Independence or the Bill of Rights. All of them were printed on that fake wrinkled-up brownish parchment paper. Oddly when the bills and documents were new they gave off an almost sickenly sweet odor but it has dissipated over the years. Back then a packet of maybe 8 or 10 different Conferdate bills was like $2 or $3.


I bought them all and somehow amazingly after over 60 years, I still have most of them. I occasionally use them as photo props.

Here's one with a pair of solid silver mounted pistols copied from an original set presented to George Washinton during the revolutionary war. The set was issued during the Bicentennial by the US Historical Society. I posed the pistols on the fake parchment Declaration of Independence and added a few of the fake continental currency bills. Since I have stored them out of the light all these years they haven't turned dark like the O.P.'s examples

At some point, I came across a real Confederate bill in our travels that was affordable at the time (1950s) and bought it. It looked nothing like those brown parchment paper replicas. Instead of getting darker when exposed to light they tend to fade and get lighter.

Cheers

 

[MWood1841]

Absolutely repos. I have a couple. I think they gave those out in Kleenex boxes years ago. Back around the time of the CW Centennial.

Yeah, I got reading on it and sounds like alot were reproduced back in the 1950's and 60's from the Historical Document Company out of Philadelphia. So sounds about right. Oh well. They look cool and figured I give it a stab and ask. Another topic area I know very little about.

 

[cannonjockey]

Here you go. I found one of those old packets of bills for sale on eBay. There were evidently two sets offered--an A and B selection of different bills.

Link: Confederate bill replica packet set A

 

[cannonjockey]

Here's my meager collection of Confederate bills. I went for a 3 bill range of values. There are others on this forum who have much larger collections including many rare and valuable pieces. These were collected many years ago when they were not that expensive.
I think the $10 bill is the one I bought when I was 12 or 13 so that would have been 1957 or 58. Prices started going up when the civil war centennial kicked off in 1961.


One thing to note about original pieces is that the pattern printing on the backs are usually a different color like light green or blue. The signatures are all hand signed and not a facsimile printed on the bill, also the paper is not brittle but flexible. I understand that they used rice paper for most bills

 

[Pollaco]

I have some similar notes on that crumbly

, crinkly paper. That paper is a dead give-away. Mine do have the word "Copy" on the face of them though.

 

[TucsonReb]

These are sadly the kind of notes that most people hope are genuine, but here's a warning to all future posters: BROWN CRINKLY PAPER IS UNDOUBTEDLY A REPRO. I do like owning the fakes though, they're kind of fun.

 

[John Winn]

And just have to say: all Confederate money is old (nyuk nyuk).

BJ

 

[cannonjockey]

Nobody here may be old enough to remember but in the mid-1950s, Cheerios cereal started putting replica Confederate bills in their cereal boxes. Periodically they would change to a different bill (value and engraving work) Each bill had the word replica printed in the corner and the paper was more like cheap newsprint quality. At some point, one could order a large fold-out portfolio with cut-out corner slots for each bill for the measly sum of two box tops and maybe a dollar. Since Cheerios was my favorite cereal, I had a complete set of bills and then ordered the portfolio. It has since long been lost to time. However, in looking at the pricing on real Confederate bills on eBay, I was surprised to find several of those old Cheerios complete sets for sale. I was tempted to buy one but then decided I already have enough useless junk. I like to refer to myself as a collector because it sounds a lot better than a hoarder.


I bet Cheerios sold a lot of cereal with those bills--well at least maybe in the South.

Here's a link to one for sale and a picture of what they looked like
1955 Cheerios Confederate money album

I can only imagine the ludicrous culture war that would occur if some cereal company tried a promotion like that today.

Cheers

 

[Pollaco]

There is a saying that no Confederate money (in decent shape, of course)is worth less than face value. Some a whole lot more.

 

[Bur Oak]

One thing to note about original pieces is that the pattern printing on the backs are usually a different color like light green or blue. The signatures are all hand signed and not a facsimile printed on the bill, also the paper is not brittle but flexible. I understand that they used rice paper for most bills.

Rice paper was NEVER used for Confederate currency. It was all rag paper, though various levels of quality were used, particularly for the earlier notes.

 

[Bur Oak]

There is a saying that no Confederate money (in decent shape, of course)is worth less than face value. Some a whole lot more.

That's true of notes in uncirculated condition. It's becoming true of more notes in high circulated grades.

 

[Pollaco]

Do Confederate reenactors carry reproduction or facsimile money?

 

[Salterr]

http://manhattancoinclub.org/newsletter/ConfederateCurrency.pdf

This mentions some known fakes and the cheerios sets from 1954. Can't speak for its accuracy but interesting read

 

[cannonjockey]

Rice paper was NEVER used for Confederate currency. It was all rag paper, though various levels of quality were used, particularly for the earlier notes.

Well, that's certainly news to several numismatic organizations. (those that also include Notaphily collecting) According to these sources while the US exclusively used linen based paper the South did not due to the usual lack of material resources so they most often resorted to rice paper

Live auctioneers on Confederate money

How to authenticate Confederate money --The Manhattan coin club

Here's a video on authenticating Confederate currency. If you forward to the 7:10 time mark the person giving the lecture also states
that Confederate bills were made of Rice paper. Of course, it's very likely that some early bills may have used linen or rag for some bills but none of the online references seem to mention it

Cheers

 

[Bur Oak]

Well, that's certainly news to several numismatic organizations.

I certainly hope so. I'm tired of the endless repetition of false information.

According to these sources while the US exclusively used linen based paper the South did not due to the usual lack of material resources so they most often resorted to rice paper

Live auctioneers on Confederate money

How to authenticate Confederate money --The Manhattan coin club

Here's a video on authenticating Confederate currency. If you forward to the 7:10 time mark the person giving the lecture also states
that Confederate bills were made of Rice paper. It's possible that some may have used linen or rag for some production but none of the online references seem to mention it

Cheers

If anyone can quote chapter and verse of any book written by any actual expert on Confederate currency that even mentions rice paper, I'd be very interested.

It seems like rice paper was produced almost exclusively in Asia. Was the CSA doing much business in Asia? Much of the banknote paper used in the South came from England. England was producing rag paper.

I have also seen ads which originated in contemporaneous Southern periodicals, encouraging readers to turn in rags and even old hemp rope for the production of newsprint. If they were using rag paper for newsprint, why would the CSA Treasury use something inferior for circulating banknotes?

 

[Pollaco]

I have to agree, just cause some "experts" are calling it rice paper don't make it so. I have never seen any actual documentation that rice paper was ever used. Some of it was pretty flimsy but it wasn't rice paper.