Need help with siege artillery

[Billy1977]

Hello everybody, as I still don't have that Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War book by Warren Ripley nor the Field Artillery Weapons of the Civil War by Hazlett et al. I don't know if either of those books contains information on the following siege pieces which I can't find pictures of anywhere. If someone has any pictures of the following siege artillery pieces could you post them here? It would be greatly appreciated. I had no idea there were so many types of siege artillery in the war. I can't find any pictures of the

12-pdr. siege gun Model 1840
12-pdr. siege gun Model 1845
18-pdr. siege gun Model 1840
18-pdr. siege gun Model 1845
24-pdr. siege gun Model 1829
32-pdr. siege gun Model 1839
32-pdr. siege gun Model 1840
32-pdr. siege gun Model 1845
24-pdr. siege/garrison howitzer Model 1844
10-in. siege mortar Model 1844

and I have no idea what any of these look like. Were they actually used in the war in the siege role or were they relegated to garrison artillery duty? Because I'd always heard of the 30-pdr. Parrott Rifle, 4.5-in. Siege Rifle and the 10-in. Model 1861 siege mortar and other heavy mortars being used but I'd never read about any 12-pdr. or 18-pdr. siege guns in action in the war. Of course I'm no expert and any insight on this would be much appreciated.

 

[UCVRelics]

This should help you get started, plus if you will just google each of them like the one below you will find them all.

Civil War 12-pdr. siege gun Model 1840

 

[major bill]

Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War by Warren Ripley does not list a 10-in. siege mortar Model 1844. The book does list a Mortar, Siege & Garrison, 10-Inch, Model 1841. Common U.S. Name: 10-Inch, Siege Mortar, Model 1841. The book has a chart in Appendix C calling these 10-Inch M 1841-44 and the text seems to refer to them as the Model 1841 (44).

 

[major bill]

I went though the book has two photos. Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War by Warren Ripley and could not find most of theses. Perhaps these are known by other names. The book mostly shows artillery that is on display.

12-pdr. siege gun Model 1840 ?
12-pdr. siege gun Model 1845 ?
18-pdr. siege gun Model 1840 ?
18-pdr. siege gun Model 1845 ?
24-pdr. siege gun Model 1829 ?
32-pdr. siege gun Model 1839 ?
32-pdr. siege gun Model 1840 ? If this is the 32-Pdr. M 1840 the book has no photo.
32-pdr. siege gun Model 1845 ? If this is the 32-Pdr. M.1845 42 cwt. The book does have a photo.
24-pdr. siege/garrison howitzer Model 1844 ? Listed as the Howitzer, Siege & Garrison, 24-Pounder, Model 1844, Iron. Common Name: 24-Pounder Siege Howitzer.

 

[drezac]

The 12-per siege guns would be rare. It was determined that they were too small and only a small number were produced ( I have seen mention that only about 60 were produced). I have seen "12-per siege guns, rifled and banded" mentioned in reports. It appears many of these may have been converted to rifles for short term use until the new production rifled guns could be obtained.

At my place of employment (which I will not mention as it is a government facility ), I have seen 2 guns on pallets that meet the above description. They are 12-per rifled guns. Too large for field artillery. Weight listed as 3,000 lbs each on a shipping tag. If unaltered, they fit the description of a 12-per siege gun and the dimensions of the unaltered parts match drawings of the siege guns. The guns were rifled, muzzle swells and trunions removed, the rim on the breech ground off. A very long band with new trunions was installed from the muzzle. Due to the design of the 12-pdr guns breech that was tapered towards the muzzle, a band could not be installed from the breech. As there were many layers of paint on them, it was not possible to see any markings that may have been there.

 

[UCVRelics]

At my place of employment (which I will not mention as it is a government facility ), I have seen 2 guns on pallets that meet the above description.

You think you can get them on a DRMO sale

 

[drezac]

You think you can get them on a DRMO sale

If I could, you would see one at a reenactment and in my yard.

 

[drezac]

This link has a photo of the 12-per siege gun
http://robinsonsbattery.org/67215.html

 

[Billy1977]

Thanks everyone for your detailed and informative responses. I figured the old 12-pdr. and 18-pdr. siege guns might not have seen much use in their intended role. Maybe instead a lot of them might have served in a garrison role like in the ring of forts around Washington, D.C.? I'm thinking maybe it might be more likely that the older siege pieces served in the Western Theater early in the war as it had a lower priority for new equipment than the Eastern Theater? Just guessing. I did manage to find these pictures of what is supposed to be an 18-pdr. siege gun but I don't know if it is a reproduction (probably) and don't know if it's a Model 1840 or an 1845. What do you all think? It's at the Palo Alto battlefield in Texas from the Mexican War.

 

[Story]

I did manage to find these pictures of what is supposed to be an 18-pdr. siege gun but I don't know if it is a reproduction (probably) and don't know if it's a Model 1840 or an 1845. What do you all think? It's at the Palo Alto battlefield in Texas from the Mexican War.

You've seen this blog, where it's also identified as a reproduction 18 Pounder?
http://wssliva.blogspot.com/2016/03/palo-alto-battlefield-national-historic.html

Per the NPS Palo Alto battlefield, US forces used a pair of 18 pounders at the battle. Reading carefully, there was a 'civil war' vintage 18 pounder used to mark the battle site
Shortly thereafter, General Parker directed the installation of an upright, Civil War vintage 18 pounder cannon barrel a few hundred feet south of the 1893 monument (Parker 1914).
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/paal/thunder-cannon/chap3.htm

Steen made Palo Alto's reincarnated Mexican 6 Pounders
http://steencannons.com/palo-alto-battlefield-gets-4-now-6-pounders/

they could have made that 18
http://steencannons.com/cannons/18-pounder-iron-siege-gun-model-of-1845/

Call and ask 'em.

 

[drezac]

at least with the 12-pdr (but most shared the same design, only the proportions were different), the 1840 had a single tapered reinforce, while the 1845 the reinforce was cylindrical first then tapered. I can't tell from the photos for certain which it has, just not the right angles to tell for sure, but think it looks like a single tapered reinforce to me.

 

[Billy1977]

What is this thing? It isn't a 3.67-in. Sawyer Rifle or a 3.67-in. Delafield Rifle nor a Wiard Rifle nor a James Rifle Type 3 which it isn't but almost looks like because of the "earthworm hump" (for lack of a better term, I'm no expert!) around the trunnions. Any ideas?

 

[UCVRelics]

It looks to be a Blakley.

 

[Billy1977]

Thanks UCVRelics. So a 12-pdr. Blakley then?

 

[Billy1977]

Was a 24-pdr. Sawyer Rifle with a 5.862-inch bore considered a siege gun? If so does anyone have any pictures of one?

 

[Billy1977]

I think you're right about the 24-pdr. siege/garrison howitzer Model 1844. Here's a page on the blog To the Sound of the Guns and I think this was really a carronade on a flank carriage for defense of forts moreso than a true "siege" piece. Here's the article:
https://markerhunter.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/24-pdr-flank-howitzers/

 

[Billy1977]

Update: Nobody needs to look for a picture of a 24-pdr. Sawyer Rifle, I just found out why. It was a one-off experimental gun which burst after only ten rounds which I found here.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/moa/AHE3909.0001.001/85

I'm assuming after that no more 24-pdr. Sawyers were made. Clearly it didn't enter service as a regular weapon.

 

[Billy1977]

Update: I e-mailed Mr. Craig Swain who runs the blog To The Sound of the Guns and asked him about siege guns. He was a great help and now I know that there were no 32-pdr. siege guns or larger. So those were actually just garrison guns and (larger) seacoast guns. The only siege pieces that I need to find pictures of now are the 12-pounders Model 1840 and Model 1845 and the 18-pounder siege gun Model 1845.

 

[Billy1977]

This is what the 12-pounder siege gun tubes looked like. I just haven't seen them on their carriages.
Model 1840

Model 1845

 

[drezac]

There were a few different types of mounts for these types of guns. For the smaller once (like the 12-pdrs), they could be mounted on a carriage that is very similar to the #1 and #2 carriages used for field artillery. They could also be mounted on a semi-permanent barbette or casemate carriage depending on the need. most likely, a 12-pdr would have been on one of the large sized carriages, while guns larger than 12-pdr would be on a barbette or casemate. For siege use (like at fort Pulaski in Georga), semi-permanent mounts would be constructed for the guns